Aftermarket external fuel pump

[ARCHINSTL]

Well - is an electric pump really necessary for a Weber on a 3A - or am I missing something?
I used the regular mech pump with a regulator and gauge in 2008 when I did the switch and have not encountered any probs - at least none that I am aware of.
The only difference is that hot restarts, regardless of the Season, take an extra twirl of the starter for 2-3 seconds.
I routed the fuel supply hose from the pump to the regulator and gauge mounted on the strut tower and thence to the relocated P/S entry port on the Weber, following splatterdog's example; this seemed less convoluted and might keep the fuel a tiny tad cooler.
Tom M.

[Lil Beast]

I don't think you missin out on anything! But I am going with a 4ag in a month or so! Electric pump is needed for my swap! Had the time to go the town before the stores closes and bought a filter, burping problem solve, I can slam the gas even better than the mech pump now! Not sure but maybe a tiny little increase in power! Still a slight pulsation but will be fixed with the regulator!

[Petros]

switching to an electric fuel pump when I was in high school was considered a "performance" modification, as if using electricity to supply fuel somehow took less energy than taking power to pump fuel directly off the cam shaft. If you had done extensive modifications and you needed more capacity, than it was an easy up grade, but I see no other reason to switch to an electric fuel pump. Some classes of racing had band them since accidents can result in fuel being pumped out of the fuel tank after the car was wrecked. There is an idea that it would be safer that if the engine stops, so should the fuel pump, hence the mechanical fuel pump requirement in NASCAR and other forms of auto racing. Of course all modern EFI cars have proven this not to be a significant safety issue, but the fuel systems on modern cars are under complete fuel system management.

Lil beast had the problem that a stock fuel pump cost more, and took longer to get, than the aftermarket electric one, which is the only other time a switch over is warranted. BTW, did you make a blanking plate for the old fuel pump? If not that old pump will be taking power to keep it pumping even if you are no using it. These little engines can use all the help they can get.

[Lil Beast]

Haven't made a plate yet! And I will, the little thumping noise(pumping air) the pump makes now s kinda annoying!
By using the + terminal of the coil, the engine needs to crank to have power and supply pump! So in case of engine failure the pumps shuts down!

[Lil Beast]

My regulator was in today, cost of 28.62$ + the connectors 15$ in brass! Well at the end it came to a total cost of just a little over 130$! Not the cheapest alternative but need it for the swap!

fuelpresreg.jpg

Could it be possible I need a bigger fuel filter than the factory? Cause I've put a new one in, it remedied the burping situation but not for long! I don't think the pressure or the flow has something to do with the burps cause it would do it all the time! Today did some more testing and I almost got a ticket! I was on the highway and tested the system, I've manage to go at 150km/h until I looked in the back mirror and saw a christmas tree lighted up comin behind me! Pulled over and yes, he was after me! Asked me if I knew at what speed I was going, I said probably not that fast it's a Tercel! lol
Also explain him what I was doin, and told him for safety issues I needed to know if the car was responding good enough! Gas control is as important as good braking! Than he answered that is givin me a break! After I leave the side of the road to go back home! The burping situation came back! But did found little leaks that I got to solve! Maybe air comes in by those leak and create bubbling in the fuel lines and carb! Could it? Or cause of more flow it clogs the filter faster cause of a dirty tank!

With the regulator I'll be able to recreate the fuel system closer to what it was before! Narrowing down my issues! I'll be able to use the return line from the regulator instead of the carb one, keep a lower pressure! But all that if it would be the case it would be permanent not intermittent! The one think I know it's when I'll figure it out it's gonna be something so simple!

[splatterdog]

Haven't made a plate yet! And I will, the little thumping noise(pumping air) the pump makes now s kinda annoying!
By using the + terminal of the coil, the engine needs to crank to have power and supply pump! So in case of engine failure the pumps shuts down!

The pump will have power any time the key is on that way. If the circuit isn't up to the task, you will also draw power away from the ignition. You need a carbed honda fuel pump relay on it's own circuit for a safety shutdown. The honda relay uses the negative pulse at the coil to energize the load(pump). Basically a RPM sensing relay.

[Lil Beast]

Well as long as don't crank the engine the pump is off, I've checked! But I'm gonna put a on/off switch to make sure nothing interfere with! I ordered a relay for 5$ on e-bay but will take a while before I see it! So I'll deal with a switch meanwhile!

[Petros]

Fuel filter is not likely the problem, but the same year corolla fuel filter is a lot larger, and actually costs half as much as the small one for the Tercel.

If you have a fuel starvation issue it usually occurs at or near full throttle going up a hill or accelerating hard, not enough fuel for the higher engine demand.

Whatever is causing the "burp", a steady fuel supply at the correct pressure should be supplied to the carb anyway.

Exactly what do you mean by burp? When does it happen, how does the car/engine react to it?

[Lil Beast]

Well when I first start for 5 min it goes super nice! After it's like there's no fuel comin! Wants to die, jerk the gas and it's goes again but struggling! Yesterday I've change the filter it went fine for an hour and again burp burp burp! Shut it down for 10min it's good for 5 min like normal, and burp burp burp!
It's weird! Feels like a intermittent starvation! When the burps occur I don't even have to full throttle, I can only barely touch the gas pedal!

[Petros]

have you had a look inside your tank? On the wagons there is a hatch where you can remove it, the sender and take a look inside. Might be time to drain and flush out the tank. There is a screen on the inlet, if it is plugged up it could act that way.

[Lil Beast]

Yes I do have the little hatch to gain access to the tank! I was discussing my problem with a friend, and we both a bit confused! So far cause it goes super nice at the beginning we conclude that the pump flow and pressure is not the cause of the problem, it would be permanent! I've kinda thought about the fact that the pump pushes more than the stock so maybe by pulling more inside the tank it does suck in more shit! Now that you mention a little screen inside, which I didn't knew about could be the solution! My friend thought about it but both thoyght it was only on fuel injection! I'll check it out tomorrow! Cause it does feel like a clogging line, and I can hear the pump struggling what it happens!

[Petros]

floating crude gets sucked against the screen or fuel line inlet and than cut off the fuel supply, let it site overnight and it falls away from the inlet. So it starts fine the next morning, but after some driving it all gets sucked up against the inlet again.

This is not uncommon in older cars, it happened to my daughter's '86 CRX. Ran fine until she ran it out of gas, started up and drove okay after she filled it up, and has intermittenly stalled out due to fuel line issue. It has both front and rear filter, I changed out both (neither were very old) and problem went away. I also blew into the fuel line to clear it into the tank.

If you see crude in the tank through the hatch, drain it from the drain plug, run it through a filter and use it to wash out the tank again. clean off the fuel inlet screen, and than put it back together. If you filter out the fuel you can use it again, or save it for your lawn mower and chain saw. And put fresh gas in it.

[Lil Beast]

Some sort of Vapor lock!!!
I first start to look in the tank and incredibly clean! No sign of floaters or rust even! I've change quite a bit of in tank pumps and there usually some dirt in the tank not my tercel pretty amazing for a 31 year old car!
Then I blew in the gas line to make sure no small particle are stuck in it! Went to town for a test drive and started to burp again! So went and bought 2 filters(5$ for both), slightly bigger and clear so I can see what is going on! Installed them, 1(inline type) before the pump right by the tank and the other to it's original location same type but bigger and clear! Turn on the pump and start to look in the filters to see if there's a flow! The one by the tank was fine, then look at the one in the hood and sure enough some bubbles are happening! Start to check all the lines before that filter, turns out that the outlet brass fitting of the pump was just not tight enough! Not really creating a leak but sucking air thru and bubbling the gas! So tight it back and the bubbles went away and the problem seem to be fixed! It's been fine since, 3 days now! I knew it would of been a stupid little thing! But they are usually the hardest to find, huge problems are obvious!

[Lil Beast]

Thought I'll write a little review on the NAPA posi-flo fuel pump, since it's been 2 week no problems! Well I would say for the WEBER upgrade an electric fuel pump is a BIG +! I've mentioned an increase of power earlier in the thread which is better described as a throttle response increase to be more precise and maybe 1 pony power considering I don't have to drive the mech pump lol! Before with the stock pump had to wait at around 3k rpm to really full throttle it, now it's instant due to the steady flow compare to mechanical, builds up with revs! As for the 32GPH it is suitable up to 400HP according to the dealer and considering that it takes roughly .5 of a pint of gas an hour to create 1HP(explained in the link I've posted on page2), as for the pressure it's a little high(4to7PSI), a pressure regulator is recommended but not a must(installed but not connected yet, yeah I'm lazy), it will solves the pulsation I may feel at full throttle and high revs! The pump is not too noisy and gives a warning before running out of fuel(gets noisy a little when low)useful when you have a iffy gauge like mine! I would recommend, looks tough coinsidering the several days of abuse at the start! I've seen similar pumps for 30$ on e-bay(just need to order 1 and give it a try, and keep it as a spare 1 in the glove box), I'll let know about that 1 in time! I'm happy with my buy!

[SynthDesign]

I got a replacement for the Replacement Weber fuel Pump.

I got paranoid about getting hit from behind so I mounted it in front of the tank with a homemade bracket. I used the factory fuel filter pre-pump and will make a cover to keep it clean. Pump installed, after priming , it fired right up and runs just fine.

Here's how my ended up.

weber pump 1.jpg

Weber pump 2.jpg

weber pump 3.jpg