Aftermarket external fuel pump

[SynthDesign]

I've been trying to figure out an alternative to factory fuel pump that runs off the cam. First off it's loud. Secondly when the pump fails it leaks onto the exhaust manifold. Very bad idea! Also the cam I wanna use doesn't have a lobe on it for the pump.
So the first option is going to an in tank or tank swap option. The second is an external unit mounted inline.
I want to try something that is a quick bolt on with a bit of wiring.
This is what I came up with. The return line would no longer be used but this should handle the fuel requirements without blowing the factory lines and clips apart.
HOPEFULLY!

I'm interested in the Walbro FR series, particularly the FRD or the FRB and get a built in filter too.

95746F-p.jpg

http://www.autoperformanceengineering.c ... pumps.html for a bit of info.

I think an on demand pump is the best option considering our limited fuel requirements. Most of the pumps I looked are intended for fuel injected cars and have a very high fuel pressure. Trying to turn down the pressure via a regulator seems to make lines burst and burn out pumps quickly. I have seen one of these on a Volvo diesel boat engine and it is over 15 years old and still going strong and almost silent. It should be easy to attach it to the side of the tank and wire it up without even needing a relay for the switch(low amp).

I beleive the 3ac and 4ac fuel requirements are 22GPH at 7psi.
Please correct me if I'm wrong and state reference material please

[takza]

Check these out?

Most are high output...bottom one might work?

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... 7_-1_10303

http://www.jegs.com/p/Carter/1145238/10002/-1

[SynthDesign]

I ordered up a Walboro FRB-11. We'll see how it does. I'm gonna try and mount it up by the tank and test run it before the motor swap. After talking to the guy at APE, I think I can even mount it in the engine compartment since it will dry pump up to four feet in height.

[SynthDesign]

I ended up having to buy a fuel pressure regulator to go with the fuel pump. Jeggs offered a unit that is adjustable down to 5 psi and has a return so the fuel system cam work properly.

I installed the pump in the rear corner by the filler neck. The lines worked out well and I think it is well protected and serviceable on the trail.

IMG_0107.JPG

IMG_0108.JPG

I only had to drill three small holes in the frame

IMG_0113.JPG

IMG_0111.JPG

I'll take pics of the regulator setup later. Since I'm running a weber carb, I will need a second regulator to tune it down to the meager 2.25 PSI requirement.

[SynthDesign]

I got the fuel pump installed and it worked wonderfully.

My install was pretty easy.
I mounted the pump in the rear corner on the passenger side by the fuel tank.
I installed a simple switch mounted to the dash using a 7.5w ignition power source. This way the pump can be shut off if the engine becomes flooded.
I mounted an adjustable fuel pressure regulator with a fuel return in the engine compartment to keep the fuel system working as Toyota intended.
A second fuel pressure regulator was required to fine tune for a Weber carb. setup.

fuel system.JPG

you can view the complete car build at
http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtop ... f=6&t=4934

[splatterdog]

I'm very glad you regulated it. My bronco may not have burned down had I regulated my "internally" regulated elec pump.

Some sort of "control" system would be a good idea too. Something to stop the pump if the engine stalls. Or if you wreck out and are not able to key off. A Ford inertia switch would be an easy one for the wreck out. The stall kill is another story. Not sure off hand how that would be easily accomplished. Maybe a relay activated by alternator output?

WAIT! Just remembered, the last of the carbed Honda's have elec pumps. My manual says they have a solid state FP relay that senses negative pulses of the ignition coil. Sounds like a winner to me! Should be located under dash on drivers side. This sounds like the best/easiest way to do it. Only 4 wires-power,ground,FP feed, and tach signal. If your pump draws heavy, a bigger relay controlled by the honda one might be in order.

No one here wants to see anybody's burnt down T4. Especially a labor of love such as yours.

BTW, thats some fancy coolant you got there. Not so sure I like that lexus ornament either. haha. A chrome "synth engineering" would look much better.

Later!

[ARCHINSTL]

Many, many, carbed BritMobiles of yore used SU electric fuel pumps mounted on the firewall, whether sports cars, luxobarges, or econoboxes. Ater all those years of reading various motor mags from 1953 on, I don't think I ever encountered anyone having a problem with/recommending against electric pumps with carbs. I don't think I ever read of a fire caused by their usage (not saying it did not/could not happen, but just that I never heard of one).
A PO had installed an Autopulse (?) electric pump on my Singer Roadster for ? reason (cheaper, I think), but I went back to the SU.
Were these really low-pressure pumps? Could that be why there was never a problem? They were pretty simple little machines - I don't think I ever read of there being an internal regulator. You turned on the ignition, it clicked a number of times to fill the line and then halted until the engine started. Were they a fire just waiting to happen (which never did)?
The carbs used were mainly SU, but some cars used Zenith and a few used Solex. Granted, these were not big honking Carters, et al, with huge demands for fuel. Was that it? I couldn't think that a Tercel would be that demanding, though.
What am I missing?
Tom M.
P.S. I added an Edit to my error on Synthdesign's other installation thread...

[Petros]

I think NASCAR to this day still requires mechanical fuel pumps to prevent pumping fuel out after a wreck. Though I too remember putting electric fuel pumps on import cars was a popular thing to do. My dad's Lancia had a very costly mechanical fuel pump (made in Italy), so an electric one was installed by the fuel tank in the rear.

[splatterdog]

The needle and seat in my bronco couldn't take the pressure. Flooded,backfired, all over. Just glad I didn't burn the woods down. Would've been more than a tresspass ticket if that happened. It was a carter high perf pump that was supposed to be internally regulated. I never did check it, I just wanted to drive it(young and dumb...) The weber has one of the lowest pressure requirements so that would be my main concern with too much gas.

As far as the old euro stuff is concerned, the Lucas electrical would be more likely to light it up! My old long gone MGB had an elec pump. One of those cheap square clicker pumps with a "bottlecap" transistor screwed to the outside. I believe those did have a pressure cutoff switch. It would prime and stop. But if you need to drain the tank of sour gas they will keep pumping with an open ended hose. Synth's pump looks more capable than those inexpensive clickers.

I think I would prefer the Honda control system over just the ign switch. That's just me. I'm a bit older and maybe smarter now. A self inflicted car fire will teach you a lesson. I like to think ahead now and not let instant gratification bite me later.

I was not trying to imply it was going to burn down. Just offering some slightly modern safety ideas. Newer cars burn down now and then too. Best to do everything possible to prevent that.

[SynthDesign]

I've got the switch on the dash, which is wired to on ignition power only. I hope this should be enough.
I like the thought of throwing in an inertia switch. I'm gonna do a bit more research on them. The Honda civic lead is a good start.


Also, the pump I chose is an "on demand unit". It can shut off and turn back on hundreds of times a minute depending on fuel requirements.

[splatterdog]

Inertia switch couldn't be easier. Find ANY fuel injected Ford product in the yard and you will find one by the passengers feet on the trucks, and the passenger side of the trunk in the cars. A (sometimes recessed)red button on top and 2 wires. Rap the switch with a screwdriver handle and it will pop. Sometimes it take a good whack.

Same goes for the Honda solid state relay.I looked up 88 accord for reference. I would imagine most any other electric pumped and carbed Honda would be similar. Looks like it's on the backside of the fuse/relay box in the dash. Might have to crack the fuse box open to check wire colors to verify.

Fused power in is terminal 2(black/yellow wire) Power out to pump #1(yellow, may also be black/yellow) Ground #3(black) Ignition coil negative #4 (blue) The extra plug by the dist has tach reference.

Hope this helps.

[SynthDesign]

Re: Splatterdog,

Yes this helps a lot. Saves a good bit of time in research and junkyard time.

[SynthDesign]

So after a little less than 3 years and 12k miles, the Walbro FRB-11 has failed.
I'm not sure if I reached it's life span or if it was damaged in the accident but I'm going to replace it with a Weber redline low presssure, low flow 4psi 34GPH for the Weber carb since I will most likely never go back to the stock carb. Part #99009.131

99009.131.jpg

Should be here Tuesday and know how it works from there.

[SynthDesign]

TOTAL FAIL!

The Weber Pump ran for all of 30 seconds. Now it just makes a click noise like a relay. Pulled the pump and it still just clicks, no impeller movement. Called Carbs Unlimited who I ordered it though, no dice. Called RedLine/Weber and left a VM. Figure I got a bad unit. Fail

Hope I get a phone call back cause I'm w/o a running car til then.

[Lil Beast]

Well my pump just died! So I'll be looking for a cheaper alternative or similar price! The stock mechanical pump, they want like 158$ for it! No way I'm paying that much, especially with the swap coming in a month! It was one of the part missing anyway to accomplish my swap! That will force me to get one now! The thing that sucks is that I lived in the middle of nowhere, tried the parts car pump with no success, probably the diaphragm dried out! Phone in a local store! Got the price mentioned for anything else it's a special order, might take a week! PITA, PITA!