Dang Straight

[Mattel]

...and in news just coming in - everyone has an opinion!

I know there's an election about to start over there and everyone is a little pent up at the moment but I'm sure there is a walter mondail for president '84 forum or such like for these views. and most of us here have the ability to write why our view is the one that makes the most sense to us. this is not that place and to be honest who really cares?

so let it go. before we have members go.

[takza]

Petros...you should listen to MORE wingnut radio. I'm at a loss to explain why people who are otherwise intelligent buy into it.

I only pay attention to the main stream media so I know what I'm supposed to believe. I get my real information elsewhere. Maybe I'm listening to left nut radio...? But my sources have data to back up what they say for the most part.

[jetswim]

It's the Federal Reserve that controls the U.S.A. anyway, not Democrats or Republicans. When the states let a private bank print it's notes with interest when the government could have printed it's own currency without interest that's when America went down hill.
Now most are so scared of terrorists hiding in every shadow that they fail to see the real problem. There are NO terrorists, you guys are being duped.....

"Capital must protect itself in every way... Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law applied by the central power of leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principle men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capitalism to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd."
JP Morgan

"Give me control of a nation's currency and I care not who makes the laws."
Mayer Amschel (architect of the Federal Reserve)

[Petros]

Yes, I listen to right wing radio, and left wing, and east wing and west wing, etc.(I regularly listen to 4-5 different radio stations daily) I read several news papers (or on-line summaries), and several science journals regularly, and I have other sources too.

I am trained in science, engineering, I have worked for many years in pursuit of facts, cause and effect, evidence. One sister is a physicist, the other a biologist, my brother is also an engineer, we are a family of academics. I have looked for hard facts and evidence as far as this "Gore-ball" warming issue (chief advocate is a failed leftist politician) . There are no unequivocal sources that point to human caused climate change. Yes, likely humans contribute some, but hard number are hard to find, estimates range from nill to 4 percent, some claim higher but can not substantiate evidence or methodology. Them is the hard facts no matter what you believe.

I am self employed, my income is dependent on no one except me, and I am accountable to no one. I have no ax to grind, and no one tells me what to say. I just hate lies. Human caused climate change is a political agenda, not a provable scientific reality.

Takza, you have been duped into an anti-freedom, anti-American, anti-survival, Marxist agenda by your kind hearted concern for nature and the environment. These people will destroy the environment to gain power.

I care about the environment more than most. I love the outdoors, I hike, bike, sea kayak and sail (not using any fuel) when I am not working on my house or cars. I build my boats with all salvaged lumber, I recycle junk cars into running ones worth keeping out of the wrecking yard. I keep all of the emission controls systems on my cars in good working condition (can you claim the same thing?). I built two houses using many reclaimed building materials. But I find much of the environmental political agenda a HUGE WASTE OF RESOURCES. They are not interested in the environment, but rather political control of people and of legal private enterprise. They are evil Marxists.

Liberate yourself from your delusions and then you can see what needs to be done to actually protect the environment and secure our future.

As far as the Federal Reserve system goes, I have been hearing dire warnings about it since I was very small, since we went off the gold system under Nixon, and still no bad things have happened to our money. Why is it bad?

If you do not like it, do not participate in it. You can keep your money in non-federal reserve banks (I do), you can exchange your federal reserve notes for commodities, hard assets, or even private notes, or gold if you want. If you really hate Fed Reserve notes, send them all to me, I can put them to good use.

If you do not like it, do not participate in it. It is that simple.

[ARCHINSTL]

AAAACCCKKK ! ! !

Enough already - from everybody!
Tom M.

PS: So whadda you think about da Bearz - will they make it next year?

[takza]

Takza, you have been duped into an anti-freedom, anti-American, anti-survival, Marxist agenda by your kind hearted concern for nature and the environment. These people will destroy the environment to gain power.

I care about the environment more than most. I love the outdoors, I hike, bike, sea kayak and sail (not using any fuel) when I am not working on my house or cars. I build my boats with all salvaged lumber, I recycle junk cars into running ones worth keeping out of the wrecking yard. I keep all of the emission controls systems on my cars in good working condition (can you claim the same thing?). I built two houses using many reclaimed building materials. But I find much of the environmental political agenda a HUGE WASTE OF RESOURCES. They are not interested in the environment, but rather political control of people and of legal private enterprise. They are evil Marxists.

Liberate yourself from your delusions and then you can see what needs to be done to actually protect the environment and secure our future.

The part in bold doesn't make a lot of logical sense. I "sense" a right wing agenda behind what you say. Sort of stuck in the old cold war?

I can't really say I know ALL the truth...and I do try a times to understand "both" sides.

I think it really boils down to previously run "focus groups" and "divide and conquer" motivations. There are people now in power...media...congress...administration...pushing buttons...and that is what everyone needs to look out for.

People are being manipulated. The "methods" look to be fascist...at least the results seem to be.

At this point in time...the terms...freedom and American...do not coexist.

[Snax]

AAAACCCKKK ! ! !

Enough already - from everybody!
Tom M.

PS: So whadda you think about da Bearz - will they make it next year?

What's a Bear? It's the year of the Patriots apparently. No wait, what were we talking about???

Seriously, I follow politics the closest of anything in the news. I wouldn't even know about the stellar season that the Patriots were having if Paris Hilton hadn't dropped out of the headlines for a few days.

Regardless, I echo your sentiments Tom. While I enjoy discussing politics, the economy, and religion, they are all subjects that tend to polarize people. I have multiple similar discussions on another car board where I was a really active member (actually the founder and admin of it until 3 years ago), and there are some people who cannot refrain from sinking to name calling and belittling the messenger vs. the message. It can create bad blood and in my case I believe it has with one member who is otherwise one of the forum's greater technical assets.

I had a strict rule that prohibited such discussions on my board, but there were enough members who wanted them, so I ceded to that. I'm still torn over whether that was the right thing to do.

I won't argue that we should not have these discussions, but it's tricky territory and people need to accept and be able to seperate them from other forum discussions. Otherwise, they probably should refrain from participating in the off-topic socio-political threads.

[takza]

Still think we should talk about women.

[Petros]

Takza,

You wrote-- " I "sense" a right wing agenda behind what you say. Sort of stuck in the old cold war? "


This has nothing to do with the old cold war, it has to do with a political agenda that is largely sold (and forced on us) as something "good for us" but is really anti-liberty (that is what I mean as Marxis, it is something that should be forced on us for our own good).

Already we are told what kind of toilets and shower head we have to use, and now what kind of light bulbs. What kind of vitamins we can buy, what kind of cars we have to drive (airbags, etc.). Not that any one by itself is an issue, but all together means a major loss of liberty and often at dubious benefit. I personally thing airbags are way over sold, too costly and dangerous in many instances (but we will never hear about the number of people killed by airbags).

If wanting to live free of unecessary goverment interpherance and control is "right wing" than so be it. Both the "right" and the "left" have their way with our freedoms. I am getting tired of hearing how "good" it is for us (save the earth, save the whales, save the planet, save the ozone, etc., etc., WHY? I have never done anything to cause that).

But the single largest offender is this largely fabricated "crisis" of global warming. It has allow government agencies to rip us off and regulate us based on what? speculations! That is the issue, liberty vs. government control.

Maybe we should end this thread, it has wandered quite far from the topic.

[Mattel]

Still think we should talk about women.

how about Hillary?

only kidding

anyway.. amen to this thread.

Seriously, if we have any complaints about it from any members we (the moderators) will probably delete the whole thing. We hate censorship too and I for one feel totally stifled by the lack of good public debate on politics in Australia, (unlike when I was living in Europe). But we really have to keep this board not so much bi-partisan but non offensive for all current and future members.

Remember, a couple of years previously we had a high profile and very informative member spit the dummy publicly. and, for every one who complains there is probably a couple more that silently log off into the wilderness. I don't think anyone really wants that.

Hope everyones had their little purge and is ready for a new year of tercel madness and repair.

Cheers Guys.

P.S. Save the Tercels

[keith]

Speaking for myself here, a little debate has never scared me off. I think if everyone sticks to the issues and does not attack anyone personally, then the debate doesn't do anyone any harm. If someone makes it personal, and they won't explain themselves (maybe they didn't mean it the way it sounded) or apologize, then they probably should be reprimanded, or worse if they continue.

I have seen a website get ugly because of what I believe were unruly children, but the people here have been very civilized and have acted accordingly. Even though I don't agree with some of them (most to some degree or another), they state their arguments well and stick to the issues, and I respect that.

[Snax]

Well now that you mention it and I reflect on it a bit more, the issues with bad blood on my old board have allot to do with people not respecting the actual rules of the board, compounded by mods not paying any attention to it. The biggest one was: No name calling. The main admin for that board is MIA most of the time now and the mods seem only interested in proper posting forums for threads. So perhaps this is more an issue of lax moderation there and other places where members run amok.

I don't think there's anything wrong with mods just saying 'Enough!' and deleting or at least locking a thread. Come to think of it, I don't recall the last time that even happened on my old board.

Then there are the people who stray completely from the thread subject and write about silly things like moderation and locking threads and going down memory lane and . .

Nevermind.

[Don Jorgensen]

I'd like to see this thread simmer down, cool off and die but there is an individual who potificates his (opinions) as absolute fact and continues to push for the last word. I don't care about the last word as much as gettng this off my chest.

Petros: But the single largest offender is this largely fabricated "crisis" of global warming. It has allow government agencies to rip us off and regulate us based on what? speculations! That is the issue, liberty vs. government control.

The permafrost is melting now. This isn't the first time but it is the first in modern times and the rate is staggering. Our short, insignificant lifetimes, "whoops"! Maybe we are significant. We took out the great auk and the dodo in short order. The great plains of the midwest were altered by changing how the mid and short grass prairie was grazed in the last 120 years. How did this happen? Well about 30 to 60 million bison were eliminated in less than 6 decades and possibly a billion prairie dogs were eliminated in the ensuing 50 years. The whole pattern of grasses and forbs was completely changed along with how natural fire managed the landscape. I'm not talking about your backyard. This is bigger than the whole Louisana Purchase, (about 800,000 square miles). There was a political agenda to accomplish this but there was also an economic reason having to do with the increased demand for leather to feed war machines and industry and finally largely governement subsidised agriculture.
"Fabricated Crisis"! The crisis is real and just as my generation has recorded the changes in glaciers, permafrost, seasonal frost free days, and on and on, the next generations will note sea level rise and on and on. Maybe that is a "good thing" for someone with coastal property interests 20 meteres up from the beach.

Petros again: I am getting tired of hearing how "good" it is for us (save the earth, save the whales, save the planet, save the ozone, etc., etc., WHY? I have never done anything to cause that).

Holier than thou.

Petros goes on: I care about the environment more than most. I love the outdoors, I hike, bike, sea kayak and sail (not using any fuel) when I am not working on my house or cars. I build my boats with all salvaged lumber, I recycle junk cars into running ones worth keeping out of the wrecking yard. I keep all of the emission controls systems on my cars in good working condition (can you claim the same thing?). I built two houses using many reclaimed building materials.

Go ahead and rebutle your own words...

[Mattel]

AAAACCCKKK ! ! !

Enough already - from everybody!
Tom M.

PS: So whadda you think about da Bearz - will they make it next year?

I hope they do really well, (your talking about the brisbane bears AFL team right?)

[takza]

The crisis is real and just as my generation has recorded the changes in glaciers, permafrost, seasonal frost free days, and on and on, the next generations will note sea level rise and on and on.

I'm with you on this opinion...it's for real and so is peak oil/water/etc. While the fools will continue to fight their wars. The US military uses more oil than some countries.

Talk about a loss of liberties? The environmental regs are the least of it...how about the worldwide fascist trend?

"This changes everything"...to quote the NWO propagandists.