Dang Straight

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:07 am

Check this out.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IAckfn8yiAQ

AMEN

None of that Happy Holidays crap, X-Mas (What are they "X"ing out? CHRIST! Ever think about that?) Or other such politically correct drivel.

MootsMan · Post by **MootsMan** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:39 pm

Right on, Typrus ! I couldn't agree more. Merry Christmas to all !

Post by **Petros** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:45 pm

Once upon a time people were taught about these things. No reason to get bent out of shape about it, allow me to inform you so you will no longer be ignorant.

The "X" is shorthand for the Greek "Christ" , the first letter of the Greek spelling which looks something like "XPICTOC". The "X" is the Greek letter "chi". In many of the early Church writings and in religious art (or icons) the tetregramaton IC/XC was use as an abbreviation for "Jesus Christ" from the first and last letters of each word in the Greek "ICOUC XPICTOC" or Jesus Christ. In the Latin speaking west they super imposed the Greek Chi-Rho or XP as a common short hand which is still used in many traditional churches.

"mass" was an Old English word for "gathering" or "festival", and interestingly the "merry" was also an Old English word for "mighty" (as in Robin Hood and his "mighty" [merry] men).

So the "X-mass" is likely a very ancient English short hand for Christmas.

Holiday used to mean "Holy Day", it was for religious observance. I see no reason to take that offensively either. Oddly for some reason in England and other English speaking countries it simply came to mean any day you are not working, and you were "on holiday" when you were traveling for pleasure for example, or were not at your normal work.

I hope you have had a very mighty Christ festival. And have a happy new year too.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:57 am

You know, I didn't know most of that, but the fact remains-
The grand majority of people (at least that I know) DON'T know that. And it you don't know it, and don't know the significance of it, then you likely will be behind it for reasons that are wrong, IMHO.

And if Holiday is just time off, then why would you hyper-generalize something like Christmas? "Oh, its Labor Day and I don't have to work. Happy Holiday!" Sorry, but that just seems wrong to me.

If only the hyper-commercialized and apathized masses would realize the true meaning behind Christmas is not TAKE TAKE TAKE or even GO OUT AND BLOW MY FINANCES SO I CAN GIVE GIVE GIVE FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS!

"For God so loved the world that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whoever believe in him shall not die but have everlasting life."
No, my scripture is not 100%, but I'm hoping the point is across.

Christmas is celebrated about THE SINGLE GREATEST GIFT any of us could ever receive. And the purpose of that gift was not to impress, get anyone of anyones good side, nothing like that. Christ came and died for our sins, he lived and walked among man. But the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF IT ALL is that Christ our savior rose again, and walked among the living, as a living man, the living son of God, in front of large numbers of witness, not a zombie or other sci-fi creature, but as of flesh and blood as he was but days before.

I am no religious expert. Heck, I am nothing more than a baby in my walk with Christ. I haven't even read the bible front to back yet, let alone tracking down any other ancient texts. But I know enough to know when some things are being diluted by the enemy, and know enough to not like it.

I will ask for forgiveness if I offended you for the wrong reasons.

BUT IF I offended you for the right reasons, I beg no forgiveness.

And I'm not attacking anyone, its just perception that can tear things up.
Just like taken out of context, some things can be very misleading.

Its just that to me, it fees like they are trying to pull Christ out of CHRISTmas.

Snax · Post by **Snax** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:24 am

I am not a Christian, not even religious, nor offended by any well wishes from anyone.

That said, while Christianity is in fact the largest religious ideology in the US and in many other places, the percentage of people with alternate beliefs (or lack thereof) is even greater as the study done by Glenmary Home Missioners in 2000 indicates. Consider that this data also includes Muslim, Jewish, and other non-Christian religions. Further, in my home state of Oregon, apparently "Home of the Heathens" by this study, it's a paltry 31% who affiliate themselves with any of the 149 religious groups surveyed. Still further yet, apparently Eugene, Oregon is in the top four for the entire nation. So to me, it's not about political correctness, but rather about not making assumptions.

If the majority of the US is not Christian, then why do so many more celebrate the Christmas holiday? Obviously some just do it because they consider it fun and buy into the whole shopping mentality, but others like myself reference the more Pagan foundation of rebirth of the sun as winter begins it's transition back into spring. (The Catholic Church did afterall ultimately decree that Christmas should be celebrated on the 25th as a way to compromise with Pagan beliefs and lure them into celebrating the birth of Christ at the same time.)

Just know this, if you perpetuate the myth of Santa Claus, you are perpetuating Pagan beliefs. The exchange of gifts is also extraneous to the meaning of Christmas in general.

If you want to get an even more twisted background on Santa, google magic mushrooms and Santa. It's a perpetuation of drug culture!

Well, I think I've said enough. Happy holidays. Happy Solstice. Happy New Year. And to those of you who are Christian, I hope you had a Merry Christmas.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:52 am

You've obviously never heard of the real Saint Nick.

And yes, Catholicism made plenty of compromises. The filtered out many great texts to what they "knew" God wanted to form the modern bible. Not to mention various mistranslations (Reed vs. Red Sea)

Why do Catholics pray to saints? Hang up paintings and small figurines of saints everywhere?
IDOLS. Thats placing someone or thing before God.

Why do Catholics have to confess their sins to a "Father" who is pretending to be THE FATHER?

Why do the majority of Catholics not read the Bible (however skewed it may or may not be)? As I've heard it from quite a few current and ex-Catholics, "The Church reads it for you."

Whats the deal with this Pope-worship? IDOL
The Pope is not Jesus here folks.

If you haven't guessed, I'm not Catholicism's biggest fan. Though, I will not deny that Catholicism brought in a niche for Christianity to progress and bloom.

Sorry if I offended anyone for the wrong reasons.

Post by **ARCHINSTL** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:10 am

While this is the Off-Topic Forum, this is the Tercel 4WD Club.
Let's debate and posture about the 4AC v. 3AC and the like.
Tom M.

jetswim · Post by **jetswim** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:18 am

This movie relates to the topic.
You might want to skip all the images in the beginning
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 1&hl=en-CA

keith · Post by **keith** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:31 pm

Typrus,

I think you ought to try to understand the traditions and practices of the Catholic religion. I am not Catholic myself, but after becoming a Christian in Collage, I had a lot of those misconceptions. Then I spent two weeks in a Newman center with a lot of my new Christian friends. About half the people there were Catholic Christians, including a Catholic priest and a couple of Nuns. What an eye opener.

The priest was able to explain a lot of the traditions from an historical perspective and a psychological perspective. It made a lot of sense. As I said, I am not Catholic, but I have a lot of respect for the religion. You might be surprised at how may Catholics are also Christians now.

A lot of major religions have had a rebirth of fundamental Christianity. The Episcopal Church that I grew up in and served as an alter-boy in, and am still a member of is far more fundamental today. What really struck me when I came to know Christ was that I had served as a alter-boy at so many services that I had memorized most of the various services, including the long Lenten service, I didn't truly understand the meaning of the words When I became a Christian, all those words suddenly had meaning.

takza · Post by **takza** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:08 am

keith wrote:A lot of major religions have had a rebirth of fundamental Christianity.

Seems to me that the "worse" things get...the more people turn to "faith-based" solutions for problems...an easy way NOT to have to think about rational solutions? The "ideologues" pushing fundamentalism tell them how to think...if that's what you want to call it.

It's not that I haven't "practiced" or studied various religions....I have at times....so I know there is some difference between a rational approach and a "faith-based" one...though some would claim a "faith-based" way is a rational approach.

Fundamentalism "preys" on the less rationally endowed among us?

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:29 am

I thinks thats just a wee bit broad wouldn't you say?

Your faith should not be what you blame or cushion on every time for every thing. Yes, everything happens for a reason, but we can't know what that is without moving forward to a solution, or continue our lives, or whathaveyou. God can work in us despite us, and some event or some occurrence may be there to serve to grow us or those around us. But thats dependent on us. Its sort of like saying that if a man prays for patience, he will not just suddenly become patient, rather, he will be given a situation in which to be patient. If a family prays to grow closer, he will not just go BOOM- warm fuzzy feelings. Something will happen that, if willing, will have them draw themselves closer. I think that came from some movie or another but it still holds true.

Rational explanations? Who says they can't be there? But who says that they were not willed to be such.
Who says that, to an extent creatures don't evolve? Who says God didn't make it such that his creations could not adapt, thus change, or "evolve"?

I may sound like an idiot, but hey, I'm coming from what I understand, which is little.

Post by **Petros** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:42 pm

it is only the department stores who want nothing more than to promote consumerism that perpetuate the myth of Santa Clause. But please to not invent false history or lie about the early church.

The real person of Saint Nicolas was a bishop in the early church in the 3-4th century, he commited his whole life to serving God and helping the poor, he took his own money and secretly gave it away to needy families with childern, not even expecting recognision in return. Hence he became the model of Christian giving. and many people and cultures (some not even Christian) exchange gifts in honor of St. Nicolas. He was a real person and was the source of inspiration for acts of charity and gift giving during the holidays.

St. Basil the Great, also from the 3-4th cent (a contemporary of St. Nickolas), also was great Bishop of the early Church had loaves of bread baked with his own gold coins baked inside, and then had them distributed to the poor. To this very day in Greece they bake sweet "Basil's Bread" on New Years day (tomorrow!) with a coin inside of it to commemorate this man's generosity. Jan 1st is the day (the day St. Basil passed away) they exchange holiday gifts, in honor of St. Basil.

In the Cech republic they similarly honor "Good King Wensaslas", who was actually a kindly and generous Duke they called Wensaslas the Good (also a saint in the Russian Church) who is remember in the Christmas hymn for his generosity to his servants. He was murdered by his brother who wanted to steal his land, but it is the Good Duke that is remembered to this very day. And in the Cech Republic they exchange gifts in his honor on Dec. 27, the day of the commemoration of Saint Steven's day (the first Christian martyr) because that is day noted in the Christmas hymn.

None of these people had anything to do with paganism or the Roman Catholic Church, nor am I Roman Catholic, but for them to honor these and other Great heroes of the early Church with images and prayers in NOT idolatry. If anyone thinks honoring the saints is idolatry, they are ignorant of what idolatry is. Do not be so ignorant and judgmental. While it might be true that there are many abuses within the Roman Church, they do not practice nor promote idolatry.

When you keep pictures of lost loved ones in a special place of honor in your house do you commit idolatry? Of course not. When a US solider is required to salute a mere picture of the Commander in Chief, does he commit idolatry? Of course not. He is honoring the one depicted in the picture. With holy images it is understood that the icons do not have any magic power or authority, they are simply a way of keeping the memory alive of these great people and to hold them before us as great examples of holiness in humans.

Prayers to and for the departed is a very ancient Jewish practice that was also done by the early church, a simple historical fact. They saw nothing wrong with it nor incompatible with the holy bible. Nor should anyone else.

And BTW, it was the Protestants, starting with Martin Luther who had removed books from the Bible, not the Roman Church. Luther removed them because he did not like the theology, which means he thought he knew more about theology then Jesus and the authors of the New Testament since they all quote from these books.

What did happen in the 4th century was an attempt to separate out the later frauds that were attributed to come from the apostles (Gospel of Barnabas, Gospel of Thomas, etc.) but they were clearly fakes fabricated several hundred years later (anyone who reads them can see they are fakes if they know history). It was only an attempt by the early church to find the authentic bible (writings of the Apostles), not to push a theological agenda (like Martin Luther did over 1000 years later). This was not some agenda of the Roman church, not a single Pope even attended any of these well documented council meetings. All of this was recorded and available for anyone to read. Yet instead many ignorant people want to fabricate false motives and histories to justify their own fabricated ideologies.

Feel free to reject Christianity and these great humanitarian saints, but please DO NOT pass around ignorant lies and falsehoods. You are not free to lie about history and these great humans that many people around the world love and honor.

keith · Post by **keith** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:41 pm

takza wrote:
keith wrote:A lot of major religions have had a rebirth of fundamental Christianity.
Seems to me that the "worse" things get...the more people turn to "faith-based" solutions for problems...an easy way NOT to have to think about rational solutions? The "ideologues" pushing fundamentalism tell them how to think...if that's what you want to call it.

It's not that I haven't "practiced" or studied various religions....I have at times....so I know there is some difference between a rational approach and a "faith-based" one...though some would claim a "faith-based" way is a rational approach.

Fundamentalism "preys" on the less rationally endowed among us?

Tazka.

Do you think things are getting worse for me? Do you think I don't think rationally? Do you think that some fundamentalist preacher is preying on me?

Am I misinterpreting your remarks? Am I being overly sensitive? If I am interpreting you right, then you really don't know me. If I am misinterpreting you, I apologize.

Snax · Post by **Snax** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:45 pm

Feel free to reject Christianity and these great humanitarian saints, but please DO NOT pass around ignorant lies and falsehoods.

That's kinda what my point was. Although there are many sources of history, there are many others with differing versions of it. (Though I take no issue with any of the points you have presented.) A rejection of religion however does not necessarily equate to a rejection of the lives of the people upon whom much of the writings are based. Good people are often celebrated, regardless of what their beliefs may be. As the cliche goes, action speaks louder than words. As such, you have many non-believers celebrating Christmas in the spirit that St. Nicholas modeled. But sadly, millions more just buying a bunch of useless crap only for their own families. (And Santa Claus is no more a myth than St. Nicholas. It is merely a perverted pronunciation of the Dutch name 'Sinterklaas', otherwise known as St. Nicholas.)

That said, I think I made my point about the 'Merry Christmas' wishes. In my home town, odds are that the person to which one might wish a merry Christmas, is not a practicing Christian. Even so, if you go around wishing everybody a Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, or even 'Happy Hour', it's likely that it will be taken in the spirit of the well wishes most likely intended. But there is a slice of the population, who are equally offended by religious sentiments, as there are those who are truly offended by being wished something else around the Christmas holiday. It would be ignorant to assume anything less, and hypocritical to take offense while also doing the same thing, potentially offending believers of other faiths or atheists.

I don't think it inappropriate to extend good wishes regardless of religious ideology, but rather, I do think that it is inappropriate to take offense at another's well wishes because they made a cursory assumption or chose to be as vague and inoffensive as possible by not making assumptions.

In other words, the most gracious response to 'Happy <anything>' is probably to just say: 'Thank you, and the same to you!'

So Happy New Year!

(At least that's one holiday that we can all probably agree needs no politically correct redress.)

Post by **ARCHINSTL** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:55 am

Snax wrote:(At least that's one holiday that we can all probably agree needs no politically correct redress.)

WATCH IT !
Since I'm a Flat-Earther, this means I only wish it twice for the entire Earth, as opposed to you Ball-Earth adherents who are so profligate with your greetings for each of your false "time zones."
And besides, didn't that nasty Church have something to do with the 365-day year?
Tom M.

PS to Snax - this was tongue-in-cheek.