Clutch

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:49 pm

Okay. As many of you know, I swapped engines a while back. That was about 3k miles ago, give or take. I used a NAPA Clutch, stock grip/bite. Replaced pressure plate, clutch disk.. TO Bearing looked fine and the flywheel was not warped.
ITS COMPLETELY FRIED!!!!!!

I don't know how, nor why, but its TOAST. I was driving in town, and after getting started from a stop light, it started slipping. I let the pedal off. Pushed again, it slipped immediatly. It did this through all gears at all speeds. It had been slipping for a while, but I figured it was something I could adjust out, and had been tweaking with the pedal position for a while.
The only time I REALLY cooked it was well after the first slipping incidents (which actually started about 100 miles in to the new setup) when I was towing my dead Terc forward about 15 feet to get it out of my driveway and into storage position, where the clutch actually smoked a bit. At the point it started smoking I immediatly stopped and let it sit for an hour before continuing and it didn't seem to burn again.

What could make this happen? I don't think I spilled any oil on it, and I used brake cleaner and VMP Naptha to clean off the fly before putting it on....

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:10 pm

Doh!

That is really strange. I guess at this point your only option is to split the engine/trans and see what is going on. I'll be interested to know. Maybe the pressure plate self destructed? On warranty still? I've got the Napa clutch/pressure plate too. I've roasted them until I could smell it a couple times before (when 4wding in snow - didn't realize I was pushing a boulder under 2.5' of snow as I was trying to go up an old road), and it still works great.

ghettomobile · Post by **ghettomobile** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:41 pm

It could be your driving style. I know when I drive my tercel, I usually have to slip the clutch a lot more to keep the front wheels from spinning (due to the little go kart tires on the 13 inch rims). Some girl I know from school got a brand new Corolla S and she slips the clutch a lot when she takes off. Some of her friends and myself think she is going to wear out the clutch pretty fast (her parents taught her how to drive a manual transmission in it). In my oppinion, her parents spoil her, because she gets a brand new first car while us mere mortals have to drive 20 year- old vehicles. Her parents also gave her $1000 to not join some club at school, and they let her go on trips to europe all the time (and they are european). Oh well, I hope I didn't hijack your thread. I hope you find my information helpful

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:53 pm

I've burned out 4 times. In the old Terc, I peeled out at least 3 times a week. Its clutch didn't have too much of an issue, though it was worn, but not to the point of slippage. I put maybe 6000-10000 miles on it? And that clutch had been on there for 90,000 already.

Maybe I got a lemon?

Between all of the issues I'm having, though they are few, they are big enough for me to be seriously concerned about continuing driving it for fear of more problems developing, and in the case of the clutch, me hurting myself or someone else.

ghettomobile · Post by **ghettomobile** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:04 am

That might be. In my 1986 Toyota 1 ton pickup, I dump the clutch and burn out all the time, and it still has the original clutch, with 147000 on the vehicle. It must have a heavy duty clutch, because it is much harder to push in than other toyota pickups of that era. One of my friends has a 1991 toyota 1/2 ton pickup, and it has gone through 3 clutches, and it has less miles on it than mine (136,000 miles), but he really abuses it (we went out to the business park and jumped it, and then went off road in it, and it is a 2wd).

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:18 am

My first car was an 83 tercel 3-door hatch. I burned out (reved the engine way up and dropped the clutch from a stop) probably 3 times a day. Looking back I don't have a clue why I had so much fun doing it; anyhow, that clutch lasted as long as the car (280,000kms). I think it is supposed to be pretty tough to wreck these clutches.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:21 pm

Okay, now that I can say it without feeling bad, I used to burn out at school every time I'd start moving. I had to prove somehow that my car wasn't as much of a POS as it was accused of! Plus, I get a twisted fun out of a 9 foot burnout.. lol.
I was/am more cautious with the grey as its still having other issues. Besides that, the clutch was so slippy for a good long time that it wouldn't burn out at all.

I talked to a mechanic today and he says that he's seen 3 cars go through NAPA clutches within 25,000 miles, though he hadn't seen one as fast as mine. He recommends using Luke brand through NAPA. He wants a picture of the clutch once I pull everything apart. I'll post one here too.

ghettomobile · Post by **ghettomobile** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:23 pm

Burnouts are cool. I took my Honda motorcycle and burned off today right before I did a 100ft long wheelie. It is a 1984 honda xl200r, and nobody thinks it is capable of burnouts or wheelies, but I proved them wrong. Im also sure that the security in this stupid gated community didnt think that I would be able to out run them, but i did, because my little motorcycle can fit betwwen the openings on gates and fences. It is a pretty cool bike.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:41 pm

My learner bike (still waiting on the class that you have to take here to get your Motorcycle provision on your liscence) is a 2002 Honda Rebel. 249cc 2 cylinder. It can't burn out, believe me, I've tried. I've put 2000 miles on that Motorcycle going up and down a SINGLE STRETCH OF ROAD that is roughly 1.5 miles long. Well, it's my neighborhood, and its in the mountains so its not straight by any means. I've gotten up to 65mph in our 25 mph zone and almost killed myself on our neighborhood S-Curve.
Both my mom and my dad each have a Honda Magna 750cc V-4. My moms is a 1996 and my dads is a 2003. My mom's has a K&N and the baffles have been removed from the tailpipe, essentially turning it into a megaphone. My dad's just has lots of lighting stuff done, oh yeah, along with hand warmers. My mom's pushes 100hp and my dad's is about 95. They are cruisers with Super Sport engine and transmission, so they M-O-V-E. Redline is at 10,000RPM. Owing to the fact that they are cruisers, they are too front-heavy to do wheelies, but just you try and tell me my mom's won't do a 100 foot burnout. They feel very strong up to 6000 RPM, where if you don't have a firm grip on the handlebars you will fall off. It's like someone hit the bloody NOS. Now, I don't care if you think this sounds sissified, but I'm terrified of exceeding 120MPH on those things... I've been there and I dunno if I want to go back... :blink: :wacko: :blink: Heck, you get me to 140 mph in our Passat and I'll want to go faster, but having nothing around you and the ground only a few feet down is SCARY going that fast...
The way my folks drive them, they get 58 miles per gallon. They keep it under 4500 RPM as much as possible. When you hammer it like the engine was built for, it'll get 35 mpg.

ghettomobile · Post by **ghettomobile** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:25 am

If you want to burn off, hold the front brake, put your feet on the ground with your legs in front of the foot pegs, rev it up, and dump the clutch. this is the only way I can get my bike to burn off. It is called a brake stand. I can also do stoppies, where the rear wheel comes off the ground when I brake hard and sit on the gas tank. this has a tendency to scare people who are nearby, because they think that I am going to crash event though I am in complete control. I live in California, and I am going to have to take the class to get my motorcycle provision on my license as well. The bikes I have are a 1984 Honda XL200R (related to the XR200R) and a 1983 Honda XL250R. My dad just got a 2002 Yamaha XV1700 Warrior, and it makes quite a bit of power, and has aftermarket pipes on it and it can be heard all the way at the beginning of our street. Today I was riding my XL200, and the part of the exhaust where the head pipe meets the exhaust shed its asbestos gasket, making it as loud as it would be with no exhaust, and it would backfire out the exhaust when i let off the throttle when it is at high rpms. I drove through the parking lot of the movies theatres, and people were giving me dirty looks and the look of disapproval, so I revved it, and it sounded like a crotch rocket with no exhaust. I am also sure that the residents of the neighborhoods that I rode through to today dont like my bike too much either.

I guess I am the only one who likes the sound of a 200 motor with a noisy exhaust.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:16 pm

i got a used clutch at the scrap yard out of a 85 tercel, works pretty good! you can chirp 3rd if you work the gears and everything right, mind you, your driving like a mad man at this point

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:21 pm

Our diesel Passat has 160,000 miles on the orig. clutch, and 2 people learned how to drive on it along with LOTS of clutch dumps, and it has NO slippage. I'm thinking about seeing if the plate from a TDI will fit on mine.

The Rebel weighs 450 lbs or something like that, and has 20 horses. The Magna's are 800 lbs. 10lbs to a hp versus 22.5 lbs to a hp. VERY different beasts. Along with these 2 differences- 2 cyl side-by-side lawnmower engine (in essence) with a 7000 rpm red, versus a V-4 arrangement, liquid-cooled, pumped oil, dual carb (and I think VTEC) monster performance engine.

2.54cm in an inch give or take
Want to know the tire sizes?
Magna: Front 120/80-17 4.73 inches wide
Rear 150/80-15 5.91 inches wide

Rebel: Front 3.00-18 47P 3 inches wide
Rear 130/90-15 5.12 inches wide

Having such a thin front tire makes burns very hard. I bruised the SH!7 out of my calves trying a brake stand (didn't know it was called that) as the front tire just skipped along the ground. The Mag's front tire is big enough to make that difference.

BTW, Doing that stretch of road, which is an example of extreme stop and go, I've hit 75 mpg. Calculated off the manual fuel capacity (pre-reserve) and then running down to reserve, minusing distance on reserve, then filling full from the fuel jug in the garage. Worst I ever saw was 60 mpg. But then again, Average speed was about 45 mph. Speed limit on the road just behind ,my house? (not the one I was on) 45-65mph.

Both the Rebel and the Magna are 5-speeds. No reverse gear on either.

We have a 1982 Yamaha Virago 750. V-Twin style twin-carbed 2 cyl V. Shaft-style drive. 5-speed. Right now the carbs are dead, but I think its due to fouling from the 2 years we stored it. My dad got it to 125 mph when it was running. 75 horses output roughly. I'm negotiating making it mine when I get my provision and the carbs going.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:47 pm

They are all "Wet" style clutches. Why aren't our cars clutched this way? It's very effective for keeping the clutch together for a long time. As long as it's a "wet" style disk. Our neighbor has an 80's Goldwing touring bike with over 100k on the orig "wet" clutch. He burns out near every time he starts moving lol. He goes through a set of tires in ONE WEEKEND when he's riding hard.

ghettomobile · Post by **ghettomobile** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:57 pm

My xl200 makes 17 hp,is a single cylinder with 195cc of displacement, and weighs 233lbs, and has pretty skinny tires in front and back. I have tried to burn off while riding the bike by holding the front brake and spinning the rear tire while going about 10 mph, but this usually isnt possible because the back tire always finds too much traction, and even with all my weight on the gas tank, it lifts the front wheel enough to skid, or it just bogs and doesnt burn out, but keep in mind that this on the street, and usually on dry pavement. If there is wet pavement, or dirt, or grass, I can burn out like no other. On grass though(especially wet grass), the enduro tires dont have any traction, and I have had many instances when both tires are skidding while I am trying to avoid something like a tree, fence, or rock. My toyota pickup is doing the same thing that you passat is doing, where the clutch is lasting forever. My truck has seen a lot of rough service, including towing things (heavy stuff like a huge air compressor, a Kubota, a concrete saw, and lots of other things) has had a lot of heavy things in the bed, along with a heavy bed with a lot of heavy tools in it, plus it was used by many different people who may or may not have known how to drive a manual transmission (it was used as a company truck in the late 1980's and early 1990's by a concrete company my dad worked for). The thing I find amazing is that it is on its original clutch at 147,000 miles, and although I had to replace the clutch master cylinder, it is still gripping as if it were a new clutch. I dont Know why they dont use a multi disk clutch in cars, but it probably has something to do with how much it costs to make the car. Wet multi-disk clutches in motorcycles can be quite costly, so for a car it would be really costly. they do make multi- disk racing clutches, but they cost in the thousands of dollars range, and they are usually meant for drag racing and have no ability to slip when taking off from a stop ( they lock up, and are more "on- off" than normal clutches). they probably make a multi disk clutch that is the same as the normal clutch on a car, but lasts longer, but I havent seen one, but I havent looked either

clbolt · Post by **clbolt** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:45 pm

The short life of your clutch likely was caused by one of about 3 faults. The first would be a weak pressure plate in the rebuild. I've seen this in a remanufactured Tercel clutch assembly before. If it doesn't have enough clamping force, it's going to slip, and if it slips, it's going to burn out.

Second would be a bad self-adjuster in the clutch pedal assembly. My wife's 82 had that particular problem, and it caused the clutch to slip. I ended up pinning the adjuster in the position I wanted, and it cured the problem.

Last would be the flywheel. Did you have it surfaced when you replaced the clutch? If not, that could have caused the early demise. While it's not always a necessity, it's never a bad idea. A worn and glazed flywheel from over 100k miles of driving can hamper the seating of the new disk, and can cause that fatal slippage.

Basically, if you replace the clutch, and it's slipping, something's wrong. At that point, you have to diagnose the problem, or you'll end up walking.