Should I replace the battery terminal bolts or the starter?

[emilyrobin]

Hi there,

I have a 1986 Terc wagon, live in Portland Oregon, and it's given me a lot of trouble starting this winter. Figure I'd get some input here as to what could be the issue.

I've got the classic Click + No Start. Battery is seemingly fine; all the lights and electrical work inside the car when I've got the key in the ignition pre-turnover. I'm not looking under the hood right at this moment but I'm fairly sure the battery is less than 5 years old (purchased at Fred Meyer or something, maybe in 2010?).

Usually, when it's "doing its thing," I start it up, but it dies in a few seconds. So I try again and give it a few pumps of gas, and this USUALLY gets it started and running fine. This winter, I've been driving it off and on, several times per week, and it wasn't giving me any trouble until last week when I got it started, it died, I started it again, had it warming up (it was 20 degrees out) and (d'oh) let it stall accidentally getting into first gear. It clicked-clicked-clicked-clicked-clicked and... no start.

I let it sit for 5 days, tried it again today and it started. Ha!

My previous mechanic tell me I need to replace my starter solenoid. I've been looking into parts, and discovered at NAPA that if you want to replace just the solenoid on a reduction starter you have to partially disassemble the starter itself because the two are integrated. For me, this seems like more trouble than I can manage.

So do I replace the battery post clamps first and see if that fixes the start problem, or does what I'm describing sound like a starter issue? I know the battery post job will be a lot easier and cheaper for me but I'm wondering if it's indeed a problem with the starter/solenoid since that's what my trusted mechanic recommended.

Thanks in advance!

[marlinh]

Hi Emily, You may be having problems with your starter AND your battery. You should get the battery load tested for free at any parts retailer. The terminals need to be a very shiny colour, not a dull grey. If they are a dull grey, the terminals are oxidized and will not conduct electricity well.

The starter probably needs the contacts replaced, not the solenoid. The contacts are inexpensive. Check out this post:

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... cts#p65929

Start at the battery, test it and eliminate any possible connection problems, then check the starter.

[dlb]

hey emily. i think the first thing to do is go to a parts place and have them load test the battery and starter. most places will do this for free, and it will tell you the condition of both. a battery can hold a full charge (about 12.5-13.0 V when the car is off) but dip down too low to start the car when a load is applied to it.

it might just be the starter contacts but i'm not sure how to tell if that's it or another component in the starter. someone else here could walk you through it though, or it may be covered in the factory service manual, which can be downloaded here for free. this is actually a really simple job that can be done with basic tools (some wrenches, a ratchet, sockets, phillips screw drivers) so i would recommend giving it a shot. you will save yourself a lot of money doing this stuff on your own, and your confidence in your skills will increase with each job you do.

if you don't want to replace just the solenoid, you could certainly replace the entire starter. they're cheap and common enough. i would find a good used one at a wrecker. they are the same for all tercels from '83-'86 regardless of 2wd, 4wd, or hatchback, and they're really easy to remove/install. i think it's just two 14 mm bolts, a 12 mm nut, and an electrical plug. be sure to disconnect the battery first though!

[rer233]

Definitely start with the battery terminal connections (you already KNOW they are a problem.) I'd say pour some hot tap (not boiling) water on the cable connections to clean off the crud and see what's left of the bolts and ends. Then loosen the bolts (if possible) and remove the cables from the battery. Be careful tho-if you apply too much force on the battery terminals, you can dislodge them from the battery then you get to buy another battery.

Once you get the cables off, dump more hot water on the cable ends and battery terminals and clean them with a wire brush or sandpaper. If the cable ends and bolts look, just put it together and it should start (assuming of course that the battery isn't dead.)

Of course, it could also be the starter. I'm not a big fan of rebuilt starters- nearly every toyota starter problem i've encountered can be traced to a solenoid problem (as your guy said.) Toyota supplies the solenoid contacts but you do have to remove and dissemble the starter to replace them (not a bad job.)

Good Luck- hope this helps!

[emilyrobin]

Thanks everyone, for your quick and thoughtful replies!
Will try and update later this week.

[emilyrobin]

Also, yes, I know that it might be as simple as replacing the terminals. Why is it that the POSTS are also referred to as "terminals"? Are the posts posts, or terminals? Are the clamps also terminals?

See this video:
http://youtu.be/KU74feDrnAc

[rer233]

'My bad- i did say the terminal was part of the battery-didn't i? I should have said "post" as the post is part of the battery and the "terminal" is at the end of the battery cable-hence the name "terminal." Sorry.

As for potential pitfalls of dumping water on a battery, electrocution is not one of them (12v as opposed to 110v.) One thing i did not think of tho is if the battery's frozen it could be a problem. I don't know where you're located (here in baltimore it's about 15 deg f) but at the very least if it's freezing outside, it would turn the whole area into an ice cube!

After watching the video, i would not recommend cutting off the old cable ends if they're still original and serviceable. I think
those universal cable ends just provide one more place for corrosion to set in.

Again, Good Luck!

[emilyrobin]

Ha, no worries! That wasn't intended as a rib on your comment particularly; the dude in the video (and others I have watched) seem to use "terminal" and "post" and "clamp" interchangeably and confusingly.

It's 40 degrees and rainy here, so no worries about frozen batteries...thus far

So you would recommend another type of terminal, then? One that doesn't require me to cut or strip the cable ends? Or does the type in the video allow one to reuse the old cables?

[emilyrobin]

if you don't want to replace just the solenoid, you could certainly replace the entire starter. they're cheap and common enough. i would find a good used one at a wrecker. they are the same for all tercels from '83-'86 regardless of 2wd, 4wd, or hatchback, and they're really easy to remove/install. i think it's just two 14 mm bolts, a 12 mm nut, and an electrical plug. be sure to disconnect the battery first though!

Thanks, dlb! Helpful to know. I've yet to explore a pick-and-pull or wreck yard...The starters I've found are all about $75-85 new, plus the "Core" fee that NAPA and AutoZone tack on...Is this so you'll be encouraged to return the part when it bites the dust?

[rer233]

If possible just re-use the existing terminals (provided they are the original toyota ones.) If necessary just replace the nuts and bolts (10 mm heads.)

[Petros]

It sounds like you terminal need a good cleaning. the after market terminals are sometimes called for if the factory ones are corroded away or stretched to the point of not making a tight bond to the battery post. If the factory terminals are still usable, I would keep them. Mine are still good after 30 plus years and 350k miles. they will continue to corrode unless you give them a good cleaning. if the factory terminals are shot, sometimes the only thing you can do is replace them with aftermarket, but they will risk more places to corrode. I like the ones with the built-in cable so there is not another contact to worry about.

WARNING: always remove the negative, or ground, terminal before you do anything. that way if the wrench touches the body or other metal it will not arc the battery. once the ground terminal is off you are safe to remove the positive terminal without risk of arching. this could damage your wrench, the terminal and has been known to cause the battery to exposed if hydrogen out-gassing gets ignited. I have seen it, very dangerous.

Just make sure you disconnect the ground side before you do anything else.

buy a battery terminal cleaner brush at an auto parts store, or wal-mart auto department, they do not cost much and it is the best way to clean both the inside of the terminal and the battery posts. It is specially designed for battery terminals and the posts, It has a stiff wire brush like a bottle brush at one end, and an "inside" wire brush on the other that you shove over the battery post and turn it to clean it off. than buy some battery post anti-corrosion spray, and after you reinstall both terminals spray them. this will prevent further corrosion on the posts. Do this even if you get a new battery. Also, you might consider removing the other end of the battery terminal on both the negative and the positive ends and cleaning them with a wire brush as well (make sure the ground side terminal is off first!). if the ground cable bolt is rusty replace it with a good one.

If your starter is making a loud "click" than the solenoid is still working, so it is more likely the contacts inside the starter, they are not hard to replace, it is also the cheapest way to fix it. if you opt for replacing the starter instead I recommend buying a new one, not a re-manufactured one. the re-manufactured starters are not reliable and a waste of time and money. A used factory starter from a wrecking yard is a more reliable starter than a "new" re-manufactured one, and the wrecking yard would be my first choice if a new stater is not available or costs too much.

what you have just sounds like corroded contacts. but also have your battery checked, and after the terminals are clean and making good contact, and you still have the problem, than consider pulling the starter and replacing it, or take it apart and just replace the contacts.

Always start with the easier and cheapest possible cause first, and than go on to the more costly repairs if the first one does not work. Also, always check here as well, many well meaning people give bad advise trying to be helpful but can sometimes cost you time and money. I was once helping another forum member try to find out why it would die at idle and a nice young man came along and kept trying to help, he clearly did not know what he was talking about and I politely asked him to leave us since we pretty much knew what the problem was (and no, for the third time, it was not the alternator). I finally had to ask him very firmly to leave, I hated to do that because he was just trying to help, but he clearly did not realize he was not being useful but a troublesome interference.

good luck.