Dead battery or starter?

[irowiki]

Last night we started Pokey up (she started fine), took her to Walmart (a mile away if even).

Came out of Walmart 15 minutes later, went to start the wagon back up, crank...craaaank, craaaaaaank, dead. Headlights worked, dash lights etc, but no crank, not even a clickclickclick. Radio lost memory settings, so the voltage had dipped low.

Dad over the phone suspected the starter finally gave up the ghost (more on this below).

We walked home, got the sedan, went back to Walmart, hooked up jumper cables, and the wagon started right up after an initial hesitation. Lights on bright, etc. So the alternator seems fine. Got her the mile home, turned her off, back on, and two slow cranks and dead.

So now the battery is on the charger. Battery dates to 7-15-2012, but we did run it dead at a rest area on the way home from the PNW. Car was starting running fine the past week, even in the cold!

So, about that starter...

A few weeks ago the key got stuck in the start position for an unknown amount of time while driving (hence driving the starter while the engine was running). It was long enough that oil that was on the starter itself started smoking before I realized what it was. Or maybe the starter itself was smoking!

Could the starter be damaged to the point where it is drawing a lot of power, or randomly failing? Or perhaps the starter has a short now that is killing the battery?

If I do need a starter what is the difference between direct drive and gear reduction?

[Gottolovem]

I had a similar problem last winter on my car. After going through everything starter,alternator,battery etc.
It ended up being a bad ground at the battery it appeared to be good no corrosion and tight but replacing the terminal end fixed it.

[marlinh]

Not sure about the state of your starter. I haven't seen that happen before. I agree with Gottolovem, that it is probably a bad connection. I mentioned in another post that all the connections should be shiny etc or else you have a lot of resistance, which creates heat.

I think all our starters are reduction gear.

[larry mcgrath]

This happens quite regulary,when the key sticks and the starter stays engaged with the flywheel. it usualy doesent bode well for the starter. pull the starter and remove the end cap of the motor and look at the windings of the comunitator. good luck Larry

[Petros]

these starters are pretty durable, even when badly abused. I suspect the contacts at the battery because that is exactly how they act. clean the contacts of the battery cables at both ends, including the ground straps. Bad battery acts bad all the time, not intermittently (but bad contact at the cables can be intermittent).

Also, check fan belt tension to make sure it is fully charging.

[durecell]

I once had a battery that looked fine at the terminals, no obvious corrosion, turns out that lots of starting and short trips causes a black residue or non white corrosion to build up and those battery wire brushes are not enough to cut through it. you have to use a razor blade or cutter to get it off until the lead is nice and shinny. might look ok but could be bad. just clean the connections good and make sure they are tight.

also inspect the wire going to the fuse box under the hood it can get brittle and fall apart and just hang by insulation. this happened to my dad on his tercel and nothing worked then it would and then it wouldn't. strange things these old cars develop.

[Petros]

I had a situation once where the battery post had somehow broken inside the battery. it acted like a bad contact but all of the terminals and connections were clean. If you wiggled the post with the volt meter on it the voltage would jump around. I have never seen that before, and I doubt it is common, but I thought I would mention it to warn forum members that it is another possibly.

[irowiki]

Well I charged up the battery (took almost a day) and she starts and runs good, so far. Will check all the connections and such when I'm not so sick!

[keith]

Short trips, cold weather, fan on high, lights on can drain a battery, even when it is still good. A float charger will help the battery have a long health life. Note, get a float charger, not a trickle charger. 1.5 amp should be sufficient.

[irowiki]

I have a 1.5 amp charger I use on all the cars in the winter, once a month or so, to try and keep them shipshape.

This was just sudden, but it has been pretty cold.

[marlinh]

Keith, I just read up on float chargers, what brand do you use/ or recommend?

[Petros]

the all electric car owners have learned the hard way that very cold weather will cut their range way down. they get left out in the cold when their range is cut down. And how exactly would you keep an electric car warm when it is well below zero? you have to read this article, he got a very low range, had to keep the speed down to 45 mph, the heater off in 10 deg F weather! All this for a mere $100,000 car. the story reads like an account of a way overpriced POS luxury car. And our govenment gave this company some $400,000,000 to develop the car and the quick charge technology.

see the article in the NY times: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/autom ... .html?_r=0

quote from a blog site: "the cold realities about electric cars"

"ImageA New York Times reporter’s white-knuckled 206-mile journey in a Tesla Model S ended with the high-end EV on the back of a flatbed truck, and his account of the drive is fueling debate this week over the potential and the pitfalls of electric cars. Tesla’s chief executive fired back at the Times, calling the story “fake,” but the flap raises issues that extend beyond the $101,000 electric sedan in question."

http://theenergycollective.com/cnunez/1 ... ctric-cars

[irowiki]

Keith, I just read up on float chargers, what brand do you use/ or recommend?

I got a $20 one from Walmart, some random brand I forget now, but it is actually a battery charger. Came with a connection you could screw directly on to the battery!

[garyfish]

a popular, reliable brand is the Battery Tender Junior 12V Battery Charger (output current 0.75 amps)... about $23 at Walmart... 5-year warranty

or $21 + shipping from Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-02 ... Junior+12v

for higher output, the Battery Tender Plus 12V Battery Charger (output current 1.25 amps) is available for about twice the price

[Jarf]

That NY times article is hilarious.
I have always felt the whole electric car thing only made sense in warm climates.
And he only had to deal with 10F.
For the past 2 weeks we have had nightly lows well below 0F, I can just imagine how that would cut the range that much more.
I won't be going green for sometime.