Easy Fwd/ Rwd swaps for Tercel Wagon

[LittleRed4wd]

So some friends and I may try and get into the Denver 24 Hours of Lemons race this summer. If you don't know about it it's an endurance auto race using cars valued under $500. We've thought about getting an old totaled Volvo or something and doing some sledgehammer body work and such but now I'm wondering about the old T4 sitting in the driveway. I've already sold or am waitng to sell most of the drivetrain components, but I wouldn't want the fragile 4wd/ 3ac combo anyways. So, are there any engine/ tranny combos that'd be super cheap and easy to throw into the T4 that'd give it either FWD or RWD? The 4age comes to mind, but I'm not sure about setting up the EFI. So do any of you toyota experts know what'd work? Or is there something non-toyota that'd fit with little mods? This would be a race car so it'd only have to hold up on the track but we'd need it to be reliable.

[Petros]

you could likely get a 4af (carburator) mated to a rwd corolla 4 or 5 speed trans to fit with some cutting and not too much welding. you might have to make a special length driveshaft. Why bother however, you can buy whole running wrecked cars for about the same as you would have into an engine and trans for the turcel. often the rules prohibit 4wd or awd cars, but that would not affect you if you make it rwd.

[LittleRed4wd]

Exactly, I'm thinking it'd be too much cash/ time spent just to get it running. I just figured I'd ask and see if there's anything that'd be cheap and easy. No rules against 4wd/ awd though.

[Lil Beast]

The 500$ rule makes your request kind of hard! Do they ask proof of purchase? How do they value the 500$ car? Let say your parts car t4wd worth 50$(what a wrecker would give you) that leaves you with 450$ to play with! The 4af and t50 trans could be achievable! The volvo you talked about for strength would be an idea! You can go to pik-n-pull to save and build yourself a bundle of parts of choice, I.e: 4af,t50 trans, volvo diff(dana) and the 2 half driveshaft to make one, just a example! Would be minimal work and probably within price range, bring the pik-n-pull receipt in logbook! Maybe to keep the value of car as low as possible you can strip it as much as possible take pic.(For logbook) weight it and make a calculation with the value of scrap sheet metal(around 90$ a ton) should be less than 50$!lol

[danzo]

AFAIK the Lemons rules would value the parts T4 at basically nothing so he could spend up to $500 on mods minus whatever parts are sold for. This doesn't include safety equipment - a wise investment when going wheel to wheel with clunkers. A driver actually died at a Lemons event a few years ago in CA I believe. Apparently he had a heart attack/stroke and went full throttle perpendicularly into a wall. But it didn't appear better safety equipment would have saved him, poor guy.

Anyway I would go with a first gen Miata drivetrain. Cheap, easy to find, and durable enough to hold up to racing stresses even when bone stock. 4age is tougher to find (running at least), same for the matching tranny. With any rwd platform you'd have to do some custom mounts/exhaust. But you would still have to do this for a fwd drivetrain, and then you'd a less durable (4af is an economy engine), worse-handling car.

A Volvo would prolly be an easier swap, but tons of Lemonheads have done that. Don't think there has been a T4 Lemons car so your team would be trailblazers. I've never been to a Lemons race even though I've had a few friends enter. They look like a real hoot, nobody regrets doing it.

[Petros]

The 4AF with the carb would bolt right into the engine mounts, you would have to cut a hole in the firewall to clear the distributor location off the back of the head. But you would have to lower the front cross member to get the rwd trans to fit in the TErcel tunnel. That would have the benefit of lowering the CG of the engine/trans install, but may take some messing with the front suspension. Or you could make it fit by cutting the top of tunnel out to allow the engine and trans not to have to be lowered as much. You need to get the head pipe to alter it so it clears the steering linkage.

The 4af would be eaiser to adapt since without the EFI it could use the same electricals and fuel system as the TErcel. wait for a half off day at PIcknpull and the engine and trans will only cost you about $200.

IF the output shaft of the trans is the same as the Tercel drivshaft, it would just be a matter of making the length correct (if necessary). I think the stock rear axle is durable enough if you weld the diff, the Tercel4wd rear axle is out of a rear drive Corolla.

OTOH, finding an old rwd corolla or even celica rust bucket, it would be ready to go after you strip the interior and glass out of it. You can find those for well under $500, I was even offered one for free once. IT was too much work to restore, and I did not need another hobby of racing junk cars around a race track. I might consider it some day, but not right now.

[LittleRed4wd]

Yeah, I don't imagine they'd value my old car as much, so I'd probably have around 400-500 to work with. Safety gear is not included in the 500 price limit.

Realistically, how hard would it be to set up a T4 wagon with a miatia drivetrain?

As for the 4af-- that seems easy except for the driveshaft. I have no problem hammering out the firewall and trans tunnel. Did it come in a non- EFI set up on any cars or is it always the 4afe? If so which ones? Is it just RWD corollas with the t50 trans?

Thanks for the imput guys, I really hope I can pull this off!

[Petros]

The carburated version of the 4af came in the lowest level corolla from '88-92(?), the non SR5/GTS version. It is a great high torque twin cam engine, very tough. But it only came in the transverse configuration, so there will be a bit of messing with the radiator hoses and the exhaust system to make it work in the Tercel. The pre 1988 rwd corollas (they had both RWD and FWD corollas those years) had the t50, perhaps in the celica as well. You may have to get the flywheel and clutch that goes with the t50 trans, but it should just bolt up to the back of the 4af engine (same six bolt pattern as the Tercel's 3a flywheel).

I would think the miata drive train swap would be a major PIA, and likely much more costly than just an engine/trans swap.

[LittleRed4wd]

Cool, there's 2 dx corollas, 87&88 in the yard near here, and an 85 GTS. In case they don't have the carb'd 4af, is it possible to convert the 4afe easily? New intake+carb? Or maybe I'll just go EFI...

[Lil Beast]

You can convert any engine into carb and vice versa! You got to keep 3 thing in mind gas/air,fire and exhaust all timed! Anyway the 3tc from late 70's corolla would bolt to t50 trans! And bolt to the A series mount! Just another engine for the list in case you need it! Pretty good engine too! The 4age end up to be an upgrade for it!! 20/22R and W55/58 trans very torquy and bombproof and some messing around required but nothing too fancy I think! But could be worth it! HP sells and Torque wins! Got a 20R if need sizing and can find a 3tc! W55 too if need sizing of that as well! I got another 1st gen tercel and I'd always wanted to see one doin a wheelie! Lol crazy thought but sounds kinda awesome!

[Lil Beast]

Here is some interesting modifications designs (I must warned JAW dropping material):
-http://speedhunters.com/archive/2012/02 ... mkiii.aspx
-http://speedhunters.com/Default.aspx (if you go in the builds archives, lots of stuff!!!http://speedhunters.com/archive/tags/Bu ... fault.aspx )

These are all high end stuff! But some very cool ideas can be picked up , with imagination and a lots of time some can be achievable!

Enjoy!

[LittleRed4wd]

Wow, that golf is insane. It's one thing to have the time/money/ resources to build something like that but to have the motivation-- that's awesome.

I will be looking for some engine/ tranny options locally, hopefully I can convince my team that we wanna build a T4. They're looking at an Audi 80... Pretty lame for an Audi but would be nice for the 24 hours, assuming we can keep all those delicate electronics working.

Even if we don't use the T4 I am still tempted to do a quick and dirty RWD swap and use it for autoX and drifting. It'd be sweet to get the drivetrain out of an ae86 GTS. Just need to find a cheap way to route the exhaust, I figured I'd go out the hood to the roof for a lemons car but that probably wouldn't be the best for street use.

[Lil Beast]

Some Audi back in the days came with an inline 5 wich is a pretty good engine! And all depend on the power she'll be kicking in, it could be street friendly! You won't have to change the suspension geometry at all! Pretty much use the cheapest reliable engine transmission combo you can get and stay within the dimension so you don't have to mess around to much! You could use any 4bangers RWD set-up and throw it in with a custom driveshaft(the only cost if you can weld would be the balancing)! And see if the diff will last or if can stay within the price range add a volvo diff way tougher than the ae86 and it's posi as well! I know a rally team that use the volvo diff on their ae86! They claim its the way to go!

[LittleRed4wd]

Huh, didn't know the Volvo diff worked in the ae86. Any alternatives to the GTS rear end? With LSD compatability? Seems that is hard to find and pricey. I'd want something that bolts in, I can't weld that well and I can't afford to pay someone to do it.

Random stupid question: The 3ac from a T4 will bolt up to a t50, right?

The inline 5 Audi is for sure one of the best if not the best engines ever made IMO. Super great balance between performance and economy with tons of room for mods. My dad drives a 95.5 S6 and it hauls. Too bad parts are so expensive or I'd probably drive one too. Quattro is awesome in the snow, only limit is the low ground clearance of the car.

[LittleRed4wd]

Also, what about a "7ac"?
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=42373

Looks like he pulled a block from a 95 corolla- 7age engine and combined it with a 4ac head. Instant 1.8 liter. Is there something obvious that I'm missing that would prevent this from working in a t4?