Fuel Solenoid Question on an 87 4wd

[tercelnewbie]

Hi there,
Just bought a 87' Tercel 4wd with 123,000. Here is a list of whats been happening:
hard to start, rough idle, stalls out when coming to a stop if the car isn't warmed up, when in gear and slowing (the accelerator not depressed) is was surging.

I just changed all the fluids, valve cover gasket (leaking), checked the timing belt, replaced radiator, charcoal canister failed FSM tests (un hooked it, venting in engine compartment), put in new spark plugs and wires, and have been trying to remove rust and apply undrcoat.

So after I did all this work to it I was going to adjust the timing and/or the carburetor. I can't get the car to start again. I went through the troubleshooting in the FSM and checked the fuel solenoids. )ne of them appears to not have an end on it? I can see in the hole of the carb and it appears there is a brass chunk in there but I am unsure what to do now. Do I need to do a rebuild? I can only find the fuel solenoids listed on one parts site and they are pricy ($125-170). Should I just get a rebuilt carb or rebuild this one? I have more time than experience, but not the most amount of patience.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have already used this site so much, it has proven to be the most useful tool I have access to.

[tercelnewbie]

Are the fuel solenoids something that wear out frequently, asking to find out if I should find a used carb to pull parts from or rebuild. I just found this carb on ebay will this work on an 87 4wd manual transmission?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250985147750?_t ... IT&vxp=mtr

[danzo]

[quote="tercelnewbie"]I have more time than experience, but not the most amount of patience. [quote]

You need to talk to Yoda. "Require patience, old cars do."

The pre-nonrunning symptoms you mentioned can be the result of a failed fuel solenoid, but I'm not sure they can prevent the car from starting. It's easy to determine if they work - just remove, hotwire them and listen for a click. If you have a bad one I'm sure some of the good peeps here will sell you one. I may even have one laying around, I don't need it since I went to a weber. Notice how I craftily included myself in the 'good peep' crowd.

But the first thing you need to know is what the car is not getting that it needs to run - compression, spark and fuel at the proper times and amounts. Assuming the first two are present (but check anyway), it sounds like you may have a weak/failed fuel pump and/or clogged/pinched fuel lines. Just remove the line right at the carb, crank the engine and see if fuel spurts out. Let us know what you find.

Welcome to the club, be sure to post pics. And remember "Most useful tool, your brain is."

[dlb]

tercelnewb, have you checked the factory service manual? the link to it is at the top of each page but that version is a pain to navigate. you can also download the PDF version here:

http://www.tercel4wd.com/fsm/1985T4WD.pdf

the carb section is located in the 'fuel system' section. try that if you haven't already.

*edit* sorry, just re-read your post and saw that you already looked at the FSM. yes, i would say that if your solenoid is busted you should just grab a parts carb and tear it apart.

[Lil Beast]

Does your carb have 1 or 2 solenoids! Some have 1 and some 2! I got 2 carb laying around! One is rebuit but need new float! The othe is toast good for parts(solenoids are good)! I could send you a solenoid by mail! Or if you pay shipping and can send you the toast one or sell you the rebuilt!

[tercelnewbie]

It has two solenoids. I think I would feel more comfortable with a rebuilt one since I imagine the broken off piece of solenoid in the carb I've got could be a problem for me down the road. Is putting a new float in a simple sort of task? If so I would be interested in the rebuilt carb you've got. How much do you want for the rebuilt carb?

[Lil Beast]

The solenoids does not come with a kit only the o-rings! Mine only have 1 but should work! As for the float they are a little finicky to adjust! If you think it's just the broken solenoid the problem would be cheaper to send only solenoid! For the rebuilt I paid 60$ for the kit! I'll consider just gettin my money back the carb is a gift! I'm realizing you're in the states would be easier to mail solenoid no custom forms!

[Petros]

Welcome to the list.

I would not jump to replacing the carb just yet. Do not panic and start replacing expensive parts when you do not even know the cause. What you described when it was running is classic symptoms of a large vacuum leak. Go over ALL of the vac lines and see if any are disconnected or leaking, including the large one that goes to the charcoal canister. They either have to be connected properly or blocked off. Work your way through the vac diagram either under your hood or from the FSM, checking each vac line for leaks, and that it is routed properly. Check the carb is on tight and the intake manifold, sometimes the gasket leaks if the nuts and bolt work loose. This is far easier and cheaper than replacing the carb, and the likely source of your problems.

The carb is fairly reliable, though they can get gummed up and need to be cleaned out. The solenoids do fail occasionally, but not often, so if it is the solenoid that is bad a used one is a good bet. But make sure you do a proper diagnosis first. Might be just a fuel line up stream of the fuel pump leaking enough air to prevent fuel from getting to the carb.

If it still will not run after checking over all the vac lines than it might be no spark. Verify you have spark by pulling a spark plug wire, holding it about 1/4" from the engine metal, and have someone crank the engine. You should get a strong "snap!, snap!, snap!" from it. Spark should be bluish white. If you have spark than try spraying a little gasoline or starting fluid down the carb and crank it. If it runs briefly and than dies out, likely it is not getting fuel. Check/replace the fuel filter, check operation of the fuel pump as Danzo above points out, check for leaky fuel lines, etc.

let us now what you find. Good luck.