Transmission / transaxle / clutch questions

[dstan]

This is a multi-parter.

1. There is a scraping sound that comes from my transaxle with each rotation. There's also a slightly different tough-to-describe rattle / scrape / click that happens in a certain range of higher RPM. I have seen earlier posts that suggested it might be the input shaft bearing due to low oil. But I do not believe it to be low on oil. However 10,000 miles ago I replaced the CV halfshafts because they were bad and one of the output seals had been leaking at least since I acquired the vehicle, so though it was not terribly low at the time, it may have been low enough for long enough to precipitate this issue. Anyway, I had a mechanic listen to it and he seemed pretty confident that it was the pressure plate and that I would have to do the clutch.
a) Do you suspect that doing the clutch will solve this issue?
b) Is it standard for a small general auto shop during a clutch job to check the input shaft bearing and all other such things that could be making this sound? Or do I really need to take it to a tranny shop?

2. The synchros on gear 1 are crap. The others are more or less ok. Is a synchro something that a small auto shop could do? Is it something I could do? I can't imagine walking into O'Reilly Auto Parts with money and walking out with synchros ready to be popped in the tranny. But I figure since I'll be having some work done in there one way or another I might as well address that issue once and for all.

3. When you have a shop do the clutch, if you have them add the rear main seal and other "might as well" kind of things do they ream you for it? Or do they usually just add for parts and whatever meager time is added? I imagine that they'd have to order all these things, too. I ask because if shops tend to ask a lot for the addons then that makes doing the job myself more attractive, in spite of its ominousness.

Thanks, as usual, for the help and thoughts.

[Petros]

I have never heard a failed clutch or pressure plate make a sound like that (and I have had many failed clutches, some that broke up). If it is the input shaft that is easy to check and fix with the trans out of the car (for either a clutch or input shaft the trans has to come out anyway).

It might be possible to remove the input shaft without removing the trans, you remove the shift lever and drop the rear cross member so the trans hangs down. You than remove the screws on the cover for the input shaft on the bell housing, and back out the input shaft. I have not fund enough room to make this happen, but some trans shops say it can be done.

Replacing sycros is a MAJOR tear down and rebuild of the trans, not an easy job and takes special tools. You can not buy them at the local auto parts stores but there are specialty suppliers where you can get them, along with a complete rebuild kit with seals, bearings and gaskets. It might be possible for you to learn how to overhaul a manual trans, I have done it, but it is a big job and will require some special tools. It can be as much work, or more, as overhauling an engine.

Replacing seals on the trans any repair shop should be able to do without special tools, if you are having the clutch replaced, the real main seal on the engine should also be done. And consider replacing the seals on the trans as well.

Usually a sweak comes from a bad CV joint, but with bad bearings in a trans almost anything is possible. Good luck.

[dlb]

1) does pushing the clutch pedal in make a difference for either of the sounds you describe? have you noticed any other clutch or gear shifting related problems? if not, i would guess the problem is in your trans or diff. like petros said, it doesn't really sound like a clutch problem but it's impossible to say yet. and any shop should be able to do an input shaft bearing. it's not a big deal.

2) live with the synchros. how often do you quickly need to gear down to 1st, anyway? if you really insist on doing so, match the revs and that will help: while in second, put the clutch in but rev it up to 2500 rpm or so before trying to slide it into first. should help. but if that's all that's wrong with your trans, it's way too much money and effort to tear it apart just to fix that.

3) depends on the shop. i'm sure some would rake you over the coals for adding on a rear main seal but they shouldn't since it would only add 10 minutes work and a $4 part to the bill. ask first.

do you know how much oil is or was in the trans right at it's lowest point? if you still suspect it of being low, you should drain and refill it just to see. just make sure you open a fill hole first so that, in a worst case scenario. you don't drain all the oil out only to find the fill plugs frozen in place, leaving you with a useless trans.

[Lil Beast]

I think I've heard that rattle/scrape/clik before, my friend brought her wagon over last year and did had her cvs worked on and said she lost about a cup of gear oil and took about a week to make that noise. It happen it was dry on gear oil. I guess it's that cup that was left in it. Opened up the front cover to clean the grind pieces, it wasn't that bad she came right away as she heard it. Closed it back, filled it up and the noise was gone. She drove 5000 km to east coast with no problem. Might be your problem. Cheap fix if it is, you did mention a leak! Kind of normal if you consider the age of vehicle losing a drip a month let say over 25 years it makes about the liter or so that fits in the diff housing! Worth checkin!!!

[dstan]

Thanks for the thoughts.

I happen to have put a lot of mileage on this car since the noise started. Is it possible that in doing so I have screwed anything else up in the tranny? There have been no other symptoms just yet. Is it important that I do not drive it aside from bring it to the shop? If the bearing is bad, on account of either being of having been starved, then I suspect it is a miracle that the thing hasn't completely fractured. I suspect if the bearing actually came apart then the likelihood of the tranny escaping collateral damage would be very low...

[Petros]

that is exactly correct. IF it is a bad CV joint or clutch, also possible it is the clutch pilot bearing or throw out bearing, there is no risk of further damage. If it is inside the trans, if the bearing come apart, the metal peices will do further damage to the rest of the trans.

have you topped up the trans oil since the noise started? If so did it make a difference?

[dstan]

I have not topped up the oil since the noise appeared. It took some time before i realized it was actually coming from the transaxle rather than the engine. And since realizing it was the trans I haven't had the time to get a new 24mm wrench and grind down the chamfer (it was in the car when it got stolen some months ago, and i hadn't yet replaced it). I no longer have a grinder either...

Anywho, I am hoping to call around for some estimates tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the thoughts

[dstan]

Also, you say it could be the throw out bearhing or clutch pilot bearing? Let us (me) pray it be that...

[dlb]

i didn't need to grind down anything to get the fill plugs out of the trans. i think i used a socket on it with no problems whatsoever.

[ARCHINSTL]

i didn't need to grind down anything to get the fill plugs out of the trans. i think i used a socket on it with no problems whatsoever.

Courting trouble with chamfer on a socket...
https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6976
Tom M.

[dlb]

seriously, i had no issues! if it proved difficult i would have gone and ground a tool down but it was fine for me.

*edit* sorry tom, i just realized that your warning was aimed at others who may have not done this job rather than me. that's my egocentric nature at work.

[dstan]

Aargh!

There are nine million tranny shops in LA. How to choose!?

One I called said "dude you have to go pull a transmission from the junkyard -- nobody will be able to get the parts for that thing". Is this true? Other said "bring it in -- it'll be $550 for the ISB fix". Another said "bring it in. we may have to rebuild the tranny. but it will be no more than $800". Another said "bring it in. it will cost you between $900 and $1700, for if the ISB is bad, chances are good that there is other damage in the tranny, such as the input shaft, etc. we won't know till we get in there."

Is it true that a tranny shop will not be able to procure a new ISB? Or might they have some trouble finding it? Sheesh! I don't think I can throw more than a thousand into fixing this goddamn tranny. Any advice is much appreciated. Anyone have an extra tranny laying around?

[Petros]

Parts for the trans are available according to my local trans shop and an on-line seller of trans kits (there was a recent thread on this topic in fact).

Auto repair of all types in the LA area (Like most large cities) are nothing but a big rip off/con job. there might be good shops to find, but it will be difficult, you will have to check the on-line ratings, interview the shops and as former customers. With all large cities they can burn every custormer the comes in the door and never run out of customers, usually it is a state consumer protection office that will shut them down after many years of rip-offs.

I suggest you first top it up with fresh gear oil and see if that makes any difference. If not than pull the trans yourself and carefully inspect the throw-out bearing and the pilot bearing (requires removing the clutch, easy once the trans is out). Than if you can determine it is not the throw out bearing, pilot bearing or the input shaft bearing, you can take the trans to an overhaul shop yourself and they will just charge you the labor for the rebuild.

Chances are once the trans is out it can be fixed without a major overhaul.

I find it hard to believe a shop can remove and overhaul a trans, and reinstall it for $550-800. It is normally about $300 in labor for the overhaul, and about that much to R and R the trans. Parts can be from $300 for a basic kit, up to about $700 for ones that replace all the sycros. If they just pull it apart and replace only the bad part/bearing/seal, than it could be less. Typically taking it to a shop and having them remove, rebuild and replace the trans is about a $1500-2000 job, not counting if they put a new clutch in at the same time.

It might just need a new clutch kit, most shops will replace clutch, throw out bearing, pilot bearing and rear seal for less than $500-600. IF they want more they are a rip off. You can do this work yourself for about $150 worth of parts, and though a big job, not too bad with normal hand tools. About 3-4 hours worth of work normally, more if you are new at it.

good luck.

[tercel4wdrules]

Don't panic! I know where you can find a Z52F 3.73 final drive trans for your car in the LA area. I personally don't want to pull another one of these from the junkyard again. Please send me a PM and I'll get back to you with the info.

[dstan]

hah -- yeah, i'm pretty good at panicking.

thanks petros -- i appreciate the advice.

and to t4wdrules, thanks for the tip, i will PM you.