Clutch and 2wd Trans questions

[tercle]

Are there tests that one can do to determine if the synchros are good on a disabled car in a parts yard?

Once the used transmission is removed, how hard is it to see if the synchros work before installing it?

My Tercel was made in May 1986. What clutch kit is good?
I see at RockAuto, one kit says after 8-86.

I don't want to get one with a too-thick clutch disc.

[tercel4wdrules]

As far as I know there's no way to tell. If it still has gear oil you could drain it and see what it looks like, but even then you won't know until you put it in and drive it. It's the luck of the draw I guess. Some junkyards will sell you a warranty with an engine or transmission so you have the 'privilege' to exchange it for another one for a specific amount of time, but a trans swap is a major job. I certainly wouldn't want to do it more than once.

For the clutch, I've used Sachs and Daikin/Exedy and they both work ok. You can get a Sachs clutch kit from Rock Auto, although I purchased mine through O'Reilly's. I've heard the Beck/Arnley works ok, too...

[Petros]

I do not think there is any reliable test for a trans when you can not drive it. What I have found works pretty well is to remove the trans and than put the shift lever back into it. Put it into each gear in turn starting with first and than turn the input shaft by hand. It should feel smooth with no roughness, clunks, and observe that the output is also rotating the way it is supposed to. You must turn it for one full revolution of the output shaft. than put it into 2nd gear and do the same thing, you should notice the output will rotate faster than the lower gear for the same number of input rotations. Than shift to 3rd, and do it again, than 4th and so on. Also try reverse. If you can shift smoothly into all gears and you detect no roughness or clunking in any, likely all your bearings are good and it is a working transmissions. Likely the syncros are good, but this test will not actually test them since they work on a spinning gear cluster.

I thought all the clutches were the same, there was no change to the trans or flywheels in the 4wd wagons after 8-86 that I am aware of, so I do not know why that would be the case. That might be they discontinued the older Tercel after 8-86, but the 4wd wagons were produced up through '88 (the earlier Tercel or the 4wd wagon did not share the engine or drive train of the front wheel drive hatchback after 8-86). So that might be the case for the 2wd hatchback models.

[tercle]

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7& ... oes#p38576

The post above scares me.

Then no mention of disc thickness, but this at Rockauto:

RHINOPAC/WORLD CAR Part # 16060SE
DLX; Disc Spec: 7-1/2" OD X 15/16'' ID X 21T, Flywheel Spec: +.020; From 8/86; Select Engineered Kit

[ARCHINSTL]

When in doubt - call Rhino (from my post in the thread you linked):
Hmm - you might try Advance (online only in WA). It had two different Rhino kits - not listed now. Or maybe another vendor in your area can get them. One place is http://www.amsautomotive.com/se_kits.php

When we were recently corresponding, I called Rhino (AMS Automotive), which was located right here in the STL area. The number to its tech desk is 800-528-6743. The fellow there was very helpful - he explained that one Rhino is AM, and the "Select" kit is "completely" to OEM specs, and to go with the latter, as it is only a few dollars higher than the other - I think $109 complete from ADV.. AMS does not sell direct, though. I got the impression that they knew their stuff; I'd wager he would give you the specs.
http://www.amsautomotive.com/se_kits.php
To be on the safe side, make sure you quote the VIN, year, and 2WD.
Tom M.

[tercle]

What brand do you usually use, Petros?
There must be a reason you haven't had a problem.

[xirdneh]

.345 thick is about maximum thickness
so .3 to .345 will be good
the "clutch woes" (my story) was all due to a bad pressure plate
that was a rare case
one out of ten that i have bought
but i always test them now

[tercle]

thanks!

[Petros]

These cars do not go through clutches that fast, so despite owning 7 of them I have only bought clutches twice. One was from NAPA store brand (new not re-manufactured-I do not remember who made it) and Sachs. Both worked without incident.

[tercle]

Seems like there's something wrong with the pressure plate at least.
The pedal is at maximum height, and it still seems to have synchro problems.
A few days ago I got a scare when the throw-out bearing got really noisy for about a half hour. Sounded like old 1950s metal roller skate, packed with sand, skating on a metal floor. Then it went away.

I hope to find time this weekend to replace the clutch cable and try to get the clutch to work with normal adjustment.

If it's just a stretched cable, I will post results, but it looks like there is a clutch job looming in my future.
And then another, once I find a transmission.

So, I have been stressing about doing the job without a hitch, because I need to start it Saturday and have it running for work Monday.

The answer I have decided on is fixing the old blue automatic one more time.
I got a radiator and a straight head from pick n pluck.
I will try to install the new head gasket (I have a set of harbor freight leather punches to add the two holes) within the next two weeks.

I want to test the water pump and get rid of the Bar's head gasket sealer, so I figure I will remove the thermostat and flush it, using the old radiator with the popped top tank.

With a new head gasket, new thermostat, new radiator and cap on the old blue Tercel, I will be a rich man and will have a spare car and extra time to do the clutch job and maybe trans swap on the new Tercel.

[tercle]

It's better with a new cable.
Easier to upshift from 2nd now.
Still impossible to downshift to 1st without crunching, though.
Perhaps the 50/50 thing with dexron will do something.

That will have to be next Friday night/Saturday, because I will likely do 800 or so miles Mon-Fri, and I feel like that's too much without the proper 90wt in it.
And I am only driving 10 miles today, so that's not enough.

[dlb]

Still impossible to downshift to 1st without crunching, though.

so either don't downshift to first, or match revs so you don't damage it further. mine doesn't like to downshift to 1st or 2nd unless i'm crawling along so i've learned to rev-match it myself--if i am going to downshift to either gear, i tap the throttle so the revs come up to about 2000 while i engage the clutch and put a moderate pressure on the shifter. it easily slides into gear that way.

[tercle]

This was stuck to the center oil plug when I drained the oil.
It says "51".

I was planning on doing the 50/50 thing tomorrow (sun went down as I was draining oil), but should I just put 90 wt in?
What if the varnish and gunk are the only things holding the rest of the parts together?

[ARCHINSTL]

" Waiter! There's a synchro in my soup! "

" That's all right, Sir - it will mesh with your teeth."

Sorry...not making fun of your situation.
Tom M.

[tercle]

Actually, I am only guessing this is part of a synchro.

It looks most like a part on page MT-18 of the manual, part of the No.1 Clutch Hub Assy? And between two synchronizer rings?

Well,
I put the 50/50 mixture in it. Put about 5-6 freeway miles on it before getting detoured onto surface streets and stuck in stop-and-go.
I will try to put more miles on it tomorrow...