AE95 Corolla Alltrac GTZ

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:46 pm

I was just thinking of yet another project I'd love to take on (if I had the spare funds of course

). I'd like to buy a Corolla 4wd Alltrac wagon and swap a JDM AE101 4agze (supercharged 170hp stock) into it in place of the stock 4afe. I think this would make a very very fun car. This would be a very basic swap and quite doable. I could probably buy the car and do the swap for less than $5000CAD and end up with a very fun and reliable daily driver. Now I just gotta talk my wife into it

.

Here are some pics I found of one on a Sprinter Carib site in Japan:

<a href='http://caribou.fc2web.com/off/20041128/ ... issinn.htm' target='_blank'>http://caribou.fc2web.com/off/20041128/ ... inn.htm</a>

If you would like to drool over lots of other 2nd and 3rd gen Sprinter Caribs, check out this link:

<a href='http://caribou.fc2web.com/off.html' target='_blank'>http://caribou.fc2web.com/off.html</a>
(click on the red titles; once the new page opens, just click 'next' over and over to view the pictures). I LOVE the AE115 Z-touring 4wd wagons with the 20V 4age.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:08 pm

Are those Tercs?? I want one now... lol

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:10 pm

Are the transmissions on these strong enough?

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:25 pm

Typrus wrote: Are those Tercs?? I want one now... lol

In Japan there were three generations of Sprinter Carib that came in 4wd: The AL25 (known as Tercel wagon in North America), the AE95 (known as the Corolla 4wd/Alltrac wagon in North America), and the AE115 (never came to North America).

The vehicle in the first link is an AE95 in Japan with a 4agze swapped into it (they never came with the 4agze anywhere).

Many of the vehicles on that site in the second link are the AE115s (and the AE111 2wd wagon equivalent).

Check out this link to a site in New Zealand where they reviewed the AE115. This car is VERY cool. If we had them here I would buy one in a second. It has a 20V 4age and 4wd from the factory: <a href='http://www.car.co.nz/family.asp?articleid=4883' target='_blank'>http://www.car.co.nz/family.asp?articleid=4883</a>

So basically in answer to your question, those are basically 2nd and 3rd generation tercels.

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:28 pm

tercel4wdrules wrote: Are the transmissions on these strong enough?

Yes. The transmissions in the AE95 are a different design then that in the AL25. They are stronger without a doubt. There is a fellow out there with a turbo 4agze (big power) in his AE95 and his transmission has had no problems at all.

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:59 pm

I've been to that site. I love the AE95's with 20 valve swaps.
Your idea of getting an AE95 and putting a GZE in it is not a bad one, especially if it can be done for that little money. It is only normal for people to take out loans for $20,000 cars or more as soon as they can afford to, or worse, lease a car that is otherwise too expensive to afford, and that is much worse even just considering the mileage per dollar invested. I'm in the same boat myself, having a decent paying job but still driving my 1986 Tercel while everyone I work with has new cars. With the money I save from car payments I plan to put alot of it into the Tercel project and maybe another one or two.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:17 pm

Those things are awesome.
How hard would it be to basically swap out the axles and tranny from a 95 and pop in a 4 AGZE? Then redo it to turbo? Not only for the "I did such and such" factor, but the fact that I like turbo a lot more (Its so versatile.. You could make the engine go to 20,000 revs and the turbo would still function the same.. not to say 20,000 is at all realistic) Besides.... I know more about care and market for turbo and turbo products. And if it is already ready for boosted application, thats that much less work to do. Albeit, I'd have to concern myself with uptube adaption, header adaption, uptube and downtube routing, turbo placement, intercooler placement, bigger radiator, oil cooler... hehehehe.. IT ALL SOUNDS SO FUN! But.. (whatches those moths fly) sigh.. I guess I'll have to wait for that job to be found. But then, when will I have time for mods?!? lol.

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:02 am

GTSSportCoupe wrote: Yes. The transmissions in the AE95 are a different design then that in the AL25. They are stronger without a doubt. There is a fellow out there with a turbo 4agze (big power) in his AE95 and his transmission has had no problems at all.

I wish Toyota would of have made a stronger Z52F and Z54F transmission, but then it wouldn't of been cheap and would of probably have added more weight. Well it's up to 3A-C Power to strengthen these transmissions so that it'll take our turbo 3A/4A power.

So, does that mean that an AE95's transmission will take 350hp 3S-GTE power?

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:27 am

Typrus wrote: Those things are awesome.
How hard would it be to basically swap out the axles and tranny from a 95 and pop in a 4 AGZE? Then redo it to turbo? Not only for the "I did such and such" factor, but the fact that I like turbo a lot more (Its so versatile.. You could make the engine go to 20,000 revs and the turbo would still function the same.. not to say 20,000 is at all realistic) Besides.... I know more about care and market for turbo and turbo products. And if it is already ready for boosted application, thats that much less work to do. Albeit, I'd have to concern myself with uptube adaption, header adaption, uptube and downtube routing, turbo placement, intercooler placement, bigger radiator, oil cooler... hehehehe.. IT ALL SOUNDS SO FUN! But.. (whatches those moths fly) sigh.. I guess I'll have to wait for that job to be found. But then, when will I have time for mods?!? lol.

You don't even need to swap out the axles and trans in the AE95. Just pull the 4AFE and install the 4AGZE. The 4AGZE comes from the AE92 and AE101 in Japan. The AE95 is just the 4wd wagon equivalent to the AE92 2wd coupe. Both engines are east/west mounted. The only trick is the AE95 transmission needs a special version of the 4A that has a notch in the block. The AE101 4agze actually does have this notch, so that is the best engine to get. (It's the best for a lot of other reasons too).

Here is a link to a fellow in Australia who has turboed the 4agze in his AE95: <a href='http://www.turbocorolla.com/cars/larsc.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.turbocorolla.com/cars/larsc.htm</a>

He hangs out a bit on the Toymods forum in Australia. I'm trying to ask him a few questions about the swap.

I want to build a turbo 4ag engine too...but I think that will be reserved for a sports car, not a 4wd wagon. I think the power output of the 4ag supercharged would better suit a 4wd wagon (lots of low/mid torque).

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:32 am

tercel4wdrules wrote:
GTSSportCoupe wrote: Yes. The transmissions in the AE95 are a different design then that in the AL25. They are stronger without a doubt. There is a fellow out there with a turbo 4agze (big power) in his AE95 and his transmission has had no problems at all.
I wish Toyota would of have made a stronger Z52F and Z54F transmission, but then it wouldn't of been cheap and would of probably have added more weight. Well it's up to 3A-C Power to strengthen these transmissions so that it'll take our turbo 3A/4A power. So, does that mean that an AE95's transmission will take 350hp 3S-GTE power?

350hp might be pushing it a bit. I would not recommend going with a heavily modified 3SGTE, unless you decided to swap the entire ST165/185/205 drivetrain into it (which is totally not worth it - just buy a celica alltrac then). I imagine the AE95 transmission is ok to 250hp or so with similar torque. It all depends on how you drive it. If you are dumping your clutch all the time trying to do 4 wheel burnouts, you will wreck the tranny fairly fast. If you drive normally, I'm sure it'll last a long time.

I think our tercel transmissions are really only good to around 120 ft/lbs torque.

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:50 am

What about the Celica GT-Four? I've heard it a very good car.

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:54 am

I am currently learning SolidWorks CAD software which has a really cheap built in finite element analysis tool for finding stresses in complex parts. Using that I could get a rough idea of how much torque our transmission case can handle (making some assumptions for the strength of the aluminum as I don't know what alloy it is). And I could add some strenthening plates and figure out how much it will improve. Calculations for the shafts and gears are all done with formulas I know. The gears are probably made of powder-pressed steel which is a good way to achieve hardness at the expense of impact strengh. If so, a great deal of improvement could be added by getting gears machined out of a high strength alloy steel and then surface hardened. The big hurdle in this project will be coming up with a plan for making the parts that will be affordable - this could be making the right connections with some manufacturing facility or sourcing the parts that are hard to make and making them fit using other easier to make parts. First thing I have to do is clean my garage and get a bench with a vise so I can start taking the tranny apart. That's what has held me up for several months. The weather here sucks right now - way too warm and no snow, so I might as well be getting some work done.

About the Celica All-trac tranny, how different is it from the Corolla All-Trac one? I know they used it in the rally versions of the Corolla, it was a 3S-GTE rather than a 4A-GE.

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:16 pm

3A-C Power wrote: About the Celica All-trac tranny, how different is it from the Corolla All-Trac one? I know they used it in the rally versions of the Corolla, it was a 3S-GTE rather than a 4A-GE.

I don't know for sure, but I imagine that the Celica Alltrac and Corolla Alltrac transmissions are quite different. The Celica one is undoubtedly much stronger.

I think the rally transmission was very modified. I was just reading about it the other day here: <a href='http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/Toyota_GT4/Celica1.html' target='_blank'>http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/Toyota_GT ... a1.html</a>

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:37 pm

You misunderstood the question. The question was about swapping FROM a 95 TO a Tercel 4wd.

Add strengthening ribs perhaps? Like on an engine of higher power? Could you not heat-bend 1/2 inch by 1/4 inch strips of aluminum around the case and weld the ends after trimming to size, with cross-braces every 4 inches or so around and spot-welds along the length of the braces? Or does aluminum not do so well with heat-bending? Well, you could always use steel bent over the aluminum, but not welded to it.. The custom contouring and tight fit would more than likely be enough to maintain its position, especially with cross-braces. It would be butt-ugly and would add some weight (maybe 75-150 lbs?) but would do a nice job helping the aluminum survive the harshness of higher torque.

Hey 3A-C... Do you think you could come up with a modification specification for a 7-speed tranny (excluding reverse) and higher strength componants, capable of safe running at 200 horsies, and peaking maybe around 350? Safe running in the sense of being abusive, having it survive a good while. Like, peelouts on every start with 2wd for 75,000 miles. Maybe 125-150,000 with good careful driving. Is it even possible?
Do you think you could come up with mating systems for other engine families or a better bell housing for the 4A-GE family?

How can I help my Terc get good negative lift?

Could someone think of or design a system that would allow suspension tweaks to the degree of going from stock or maybe a half inch higher to very little ground clearance for race days? Without bottoming out on the track after bumps like that Civic took in that 4A-GZE video? I guess kind of like on a R/C car.

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:57 am

Typrus wrote: You misunderstood the question. The question was about swapping FROM a 95 TO a Tercel 4wd.

Sorry, you're right, I did misunderstand what you were asking. It would be tough to swap the AE95 transmission into the AL25 because of the different engine orientation. You would have to make custom engine/trans mounts to make it work. The AL25 has North/South engine and the AE95 has East/West. Anything is possible though. Although I think just buying an AE95 would be the best bet. They ARE available here in North America. They are called the Corolla 4wd or Alltrac wagon and were made from 88-92.

I've heard it rumored that Cusco makes LSDs that will fit in the front centre and rear diff locations of the AE95. So one could potentially make a rally monster. Getting power out of a 4AGE is easy with the addition of a turbo. I know a fellow making 220whp on 7psi right now in his 20V 4age AE86. It's pretty sick. His hp goal is 300whp, which I believe he will easily hit when he dials up to 14psi. There are other folks running up to 25-30psi in these engines and achieving up to 500hp. Gotta love the invincible Toyota cast iron blocks.

I'd like to buy this guy's AE86: <a href='http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=92043' target='_blank'>http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=92043</a>