Charge and Brake Warning Lights Always On!!!

chilibilly · Post by **chilibilly** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:12 pm

<_< I go to work this morning as usual in my 83 tercel 4x4 (120k miles), everything is fine, except a dead spot at the low end of the acceleration. If I hold the throttal at a certain spot it will run really funky. But if I punch the accelerator a little further down it runs fine. Wierd carb or emmissions problem, I guess. I have never rebuilt the carb on this car. I have on my other 83 terk 4x4 (98k miles) with just a kit and it smoothed out a lot of the acceleration issues and rough idle problems. Probably need to do the same on this one. Maybe I will pull the other rebuilt carb off the other car and put it on the one with the light problems just to see what happens. I can't use the other turk(98k miles) right now because I'm in the middle of rebuilding the front end suspension and its up on blocks. :rolleyes:

Anyways, so I park the car. Go into work and come back 8 hours later. Start the car and my brake and battery lights on the instrument panel won't go off. Everything seems to be working fine. So I drive home, about a 30 minute drive, with no problems. The charge and brake lights are still on when I get home. This is wierd! I have had the brake light stay on even when the parking brake was off. Turned out I needed a new brake power assist master cylinder because it had a slow leak. That was an easy fix. However, this two light deal baffles me. Why would the charge light and the brake light come on and stay on at the same time all of a sudden? I drove my 97 F150 4x4 to work instead today. I don't want to chance the turk until I figure out the problem. Anyone have any ideas?

takza · Post by **takza** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:09 am

I think this is a classic sign of a crapped out alt/regulator. You might have been running on the battery.

It's been a while since I had my alt problem...ended up replacing both the alt and the regulator...you should have the ext regulator.

They gave me a new but messed up regulator...spent a lot of time trying to figure out what the problem was.

It's best to replace BOTH at the same time.

You could try a search on......

<a href='http://groups.google.com/groups?q=alt.a ... e%3Dgroups' target='_blank'>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=alt.a ... Dgroups</a>

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:23 am

I would use a voltmeter to check the voltage at the battery while it is running, to see if the alternator is charging...if you are in fact running off battery you will end up at the side of the road like so many early 90s american cars I see these days!

Okay that happened to me one time too, different car, the "charge turn-on" wire to the alternator broke off at the little crimp on connector, so the alternator wasn't charging...nor did my light come on cuz it is the same circuit...I don't know how long it was, but suddenly i was barely chugging along and then oops! dead car. damn. I was close to home though, but the battery was toast, had to replace it, and it wasn't that old.

chilibilly · Post by **chilibilly** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 3:14 pm

Thanks Takza,
I will change out the Regulator first off the other Turk as it has been replaced recently. If this does not fix, then I will remove the Alternator also and replace, as this has been replaced recently. Does the brake light usually come on in this situation? I realize the Alternator and regulator should be replaced at the same time, but I would like to isolate the cause for future reference. I'll let you know what happens, but it may be a while because of the holidays and a planned road trip, in a rented car by the way! Cheaper to rent on a 3500 mile road trip than to put the miles on my own cars. $169 unlimited milage through Budget Rent a car for one week.

takza · Post by **takza** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:41 pm

chilibilly wrote: Does the brake light usually come on in this situation? I realize the Alternator and regulator should be replaced at the same time, but I would like to isolate the cause for future reference.

I researched this on that Google group and it seems that having both lights on is typical of a lot of Toyota cars in the '80s...'90s or thereabouts......quite a few examples.....

***Rick Jones***

***Toyota Master Diagnostic Technician/ASE Master/L-1***

had the same problem, traced it down to the plug in connection at the
alternator.

One of your diodes in the altenator is bad. The alt will still put out
fine but it causes these two lights to come on. You have to buy the
whole alt. You cannot buy just diodes anymore.

----------

I've got the "classic" brake light + charge light problem; car in question
is an 1987 Tercel (wagon).

A few months ago they started to flicker on and off -- time passed, they
stayed on for more time than off, eventually I wound up with the battery
dead in the middle of an intersection having to push it clear. No fun at
all.

Replacing the positive battery connector (which was pretty rusted) made the
problem go away for a month or so, then it came back. Replaced negative
terminal, ground connector from -ve battery to body, no improvement.

Checking things with a voltmeter, yup, the alternator was dead, no real
surprise so far.

Here's the annoying thing -- I replaced the alternator, and now while the
battery always charges and voltages are happy, the lights are constantly on.
This confuses me -- why would replacing the alternator make the actual
problem go away, but the warning lights stay there?

Things I've checked while trying to track this down that have been
recommended in this group in the past

Voltage across battery with engine off: 12.2v
Voltage across battery with engine idling: 14.5v

All fuses (in engine compartment and driver side door compartment) are
intact.

Alternator drive belt is tight.

Brake fluid is full. The light doesn't go off if I move the float up and
down, or if I disconnect the sensor, or if I disconnect the sensor and short
the other end of that connector with a bit of wire.

Voltages at the 3-pin connector on the back of the alternator:
12.2v on the white wire
11.9v on the black/red wire
1.6v on the yellow wire

12.2v on the 10mm wire screwed to the top of the alternator.

Connections that are good (with continuity tester):
-ve battery -> ground on body of car
-ve battery -> connector at bottom of engine
-ve battery -> engine case itself
-ve battery -> alternator mount bracket
engine case -> ground on body of car

Is there anything else I should be looking at? Is there something that's
likely to be wrong that I'm missing? Could I have knocked something loose
while replacing the alternator?

>>>> '87 has the internal regulator and the alt has a different plug........

** Let me know and I could email you all the collected WISDOM that I found.....text info.......

Thereminator · Post by **Thereminator** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:07 pm

I started to have the same Alt/Brake-Light problem today on my 84,so Im guessing thats a common warning for a bad Alt.

Soooo its off to the parts store tommorrow.

In my case,I could here my Alt. dying for the last two-weeks.

!!!

Thereminator · Post by **Thereminator** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:48 pm

I installed a rebult Alt. today...and the funny-little red lights went away!

The only one that was "at~hand" was a 55Amp Autolight(from Kragen)that looked vary much like the one I removed.It cost $58(after-core)and has a lifetime replacment garentee. B)

takza · Post by **takza** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:04 am

Welcome BACK to the wonderful world of LECTRA-CITY!

You lucked out there. I spent about 5-6 days trying to diagnose my system due to a defective NEW regulator.

chilibilly · Post by **chilibilly** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:40 pm

Everyone,
Just got back from my trip to Cambria, CA. Put 2700 hard miles on that 05 Chevy Impala Rental car from Budget. I live in Albuquerque, NM. Rained about 60% of the time I was on the road.

Anyways, when I got home, yesterday, changed out the regulator with the one off my other Terk. Brake and charge lights went out, but only temporarily. Lights came back on after about 5 minutes of ideling. Took the alternator off and took it down to Auto Zone. They checked the alternator and sure enough it was dead. Because of the suddeness of the problem, was more than likely a burned diode, thus open circuit/ no charge.

This is a relatively easy fix for anyone with a 10, 12, & 14 millimeter wrenches and sockets. When finishing Make sure your belt is properly tightened using a short pry bar. Also, a good time to check battery connections. The battery should be disconnected and pulled out of the car through the whole process. It makes it much easier to get to the regulator and the alternator. Took all of ten minutes to make the swap. Also put in new regulator, as both the alternator and regulator were the original equiptment. This 83 Turk SR5 4x4 has 117,000 miles on it.

I hope this helps anyone with the same problem.

Chili

Eatpants · Post by **Eatpants** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:50 am

i had just brake warning light....means brake fluid is needed