4AFE swap

[saltyman413]

So, I'm in the middle of an engine swap, and I'm a very amateur mechanic. That being said, I have the 3AC out, and was getting ready to drop the 4AFE in, but realized that I need to do some pretty hefty modifications. I've looked on here, and read some other posts, but does anyone have any definite answers of what I'll need to do? I have the new wiring harness and computer, but I don't know how to install them. I see that the starter needs to go on the other side, and I've heard that I'm either going to have to cut or beat the firewall. What else do I need to do?

[Neu]

You'll have to make a nice box in the firewall, or you can just bash it in. I'd do the box.

The starter i'm not sure.

If I remember right the steering rack needs to be moved, because of the exhaust.

That's all I can remember.

[Mattel]

83toybeater is your man. He's not currently Tercel'n but check out his swap notes through the search function. Good luck with your new engine!

[c0z]

Yeah, there's a really good thread with his pictures if you search. I'm about to do my 4AFE swap as well in approximately a month. For heavy modifications you'll need to cut a hole in the firewall for the dist, make custom 180 degree intake piping, swap on the stock 3AC flywheel/clutch, use the stock 3AC starter, I think swap on the stock 3AC oil pan (not sure), make a custom header or modify the stock manifold( I believe stock manifold hits the stock starter, and aftermarket headers hit the steering, i'm planning on cutting up and modifying the stock manifold), and make really long radiator hoses with possible hard lines in the middle. And then all the wiring, which I've become pretty good at. I'm going to make a big thread about it when I do it, maybe we'll be able to help each other out.

I absolutely can't wait to double my hp and mpg With the early gearing, and slightly oversize tires, the 3AC is a nightmare.

[c0z]

http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtop ... f=2&t=3137

There's a good thread. I tried PMing him a while back with a few questions, but he hasn't been on here in a while.

[tercel4wdrules]

I think you might be able to use the stock exhaust manifold and just have to have someone weld you a pipe bent to fit around the steering so that you can solve that problem. Also, I'm not a 100% sure, but there might be some hood interference issues you might need to solve. Furthermore, I don't know how 83toybeater solved this, but the crank pulley is different on the 4A-FE, so you will also have to figure out how to get the power steering to work. I couldn't really tell what exactly 83toybeater did, but it appears he did something with the water pump pulley.

Is the 3AC in your car really that terrible?

[Petros]

The issues are EFI wiring, fuel pump, disturbutor location, exhaust, rad hose location, and flywheel, IIRC.

If it were me I would go distributor less, otherwise you have to cut a hole in your firewall to use the stock distributor locaiton on the 4AFE. Supposedly the Ford Escort distributorless system is an easy retrofit since the spark control unit is separate from the ECM for the EFI, but I have not looked into it. If I was do to it I would get the ECM and distributor less system from a newer Toyota 4 cyl engine, with all the correct sensors, it should adapt okay to the 4afe, and it would be all Toyota.

You should get a hold of the engine wiring diagram for that engine so you can see how the harness works together with the sensors, MAS and O2 sensors. From there you can figure on getting the wire harness and ECM all connected.

You will have to swap over the Tercel flywheel and the starter will have to be in the stock Tercel location (since it bolts to the bell housing), I would add a heat shield to it to protect it from the new exhaust location. And you either have to make a header exhaust, or have one made, that fits between the starter and the steering rack (it might be possible to use the stock 4afe manifold and you just make up a new header pipe). The whole exhaust system has to switch sides too, I would go 2 inch or larger system anyway. There is no other change to the steering rack, except perhaps reroute some of the hydraulic lines if you have power steering, to get more room. You should reroute fuel lines, or even consider swapping them out for high pressure lines, the EFI will need either an external EFI fuel pump, or you can switch the whole fuel tank with an EFI equipped Corolla tank with the pump in the tank (I have one, it appears it can be made to adapt to Tercel okay). And even better fit is the old '83-86 Celica GTS gas tank, it uses the same 3 wire sender and the filler neck is in the right location if you can find one. If you go for the tank mounted fuel pump you will need high pressure fuel lines all the way up to the engine, and an EFI type fuel filter. If you the external EFI fuel pump in the engine compartment you can use the stock fuel lines and tank.

I do not recall the water pump being an issue, you will have to swap over the oil pan and possibly the oil pick-up. You will also have to rerout the water radiator lines with long hoses, you might consider a different radiator with inlet and outlet locations more suited to the new 4AFE rad hose locations. I would try and use the 3ac water pump, rad hose pick-up, T-state housing, backing plate and heater tube installation (it should all fit on the 4AFE engine), than you only have to reroute the out let from the back of the head. If you switch over the 3ac water pump system you will have to make a blanking plate for the back of the 4AFE head where the T-stat housing is located (easy).

Good luck.

The 4AFE engine should clear the hood okay, though there will be reduced clearance, it is the 4AGE engine that is too tall.

[saltyman413]

Is the 3AC in your car really that terrible?

haha, mine is. I drove it 104 miles after i got it and a thrown rod punched a hole about 2 inches in diameter through the engine.

so i figured that if i have to replace the engine i may as well upgrade it.

[tercel4wdrules]

Yea, I was wondering... it's really not that bad if you're liberal with the revs... well, makes sense to upgrade. Good luck with the swap.

[c0z]

Yes, it really is that bad, when comparing to a 4AFE. I drove my ex-daily 4AFE Prizm (the soon to be donor vehicle) a couple weekends ago after driving the Tercel for the last 6 months, and couldn't believe the difference. You're in denial!

[tercel4wdrules]

Yes, it really is that bad, when comparing to a 4AFE. I drove my ex-daily 4AFE Prizm (the soon to be donor vehicle) a couple weekends ago after driving the Tercel for the last 6 months, and couldn't believe the difference. You're in denial!

Well, not all 3AC are alike. I know what you mean, the difference is very noticeable, but what I'm trying to say that mine at least is not THAT bad... I can keep up a bit if I rev mine to its peak power.

I am in favor of a 4AFE, I like the engine and its torque characteristics.

[Petros]

Is what saltyman is saying is that his blown engine is only slightly worse off than a running 3ac, I would agree. The 3ac is underpowered and an obsolete design, and personally I do not find it as long lived or reliable as the other Toyota engines. Subaru and honda were putting out similar sized small 4x4 wagons with 90-100hp engines at the time. The 4AFE is a much better engine for this car, more power and torque over a bigger range of RPMs, better fuel economy and more modern design. the only real bugger for the swap is the distributor location. Everything else is manageable.

[saltyman413]

Well by this point I was hoping to be able to tell you guys that the car is running great, but it’s not. It’s actually not any farther than when I first asked for help. I have the 3-AC out, and the 4-AFE still sitting there, but I don’t have the time to finish it. I was working 70+ hours before I left for school back in august, and haven’t had the time to do anything with it on breaks from school. So I’m throwing in the towel. If anyone wants to give it a go I’m asking $400 for the car and $300 for the 4-AFE. the 3-AC will go with the car, and still has a lot of good parts on it.