Tough clutch pedal/ knocking- pulling the engine

[toyotaforlife]

I don't actually own a tercel yet, but I might in a couple of days.

I'm looking at an 83 4wd SR5 wagon with +300,xxx miles one it. According to the owner (some rich kid with a brand new BMW convertible who has had it for 2 years but didn't drive it much) the clutch was replaced a little over 2 years ago and all the electrical (battery, alt, starter) was just replaced.

Here are the problems:
-Clutch pedal is really tough to press (maybe bad master or slave cylinder?)

-When I test drove it today it started on first turn, but had a loud (hammering) knock. The kid said it never did that before. I drove it up some serious hills (it had plenty of power to even pass cars on the hills) and the hammering never went away (main or rod bearings?)

-The guy has put duct tape around the top of the sunroof because it was leaking. Where could I get a replacement seal for the sunroof?

-The transmission has never been replaced/repaired. After +300,xxx miles, should I be expecting it to go out soon?
I can take it for $550.

Any diagnosis help on the clutch problems and knocking would be greatly appreciated.

[ESI-RStarion]

First off T4wd's have manual clutchs so its a cable from the pedal to the clutch release arm. From my experience that would be a bad throwout bearing, possibly not replaced when they did the clutch? the knocking could be valves way out of adjustment, rod bearings possibly but I'm pretty sure you would have a noticeable loss of power or if it goes away when you press on the clutch it would be a bad throwout bearing, supporting the stiff clutch pedal theory. And the tranny imo is about due to implode if you do pickup the wagon make sure flush and change tranny and rear diff oil. just my 2cents. I vote no.

[toyotaforlife]

Hmmm, knocking is there even when the clutch is pressed to the floor. I guess the stiff pedal could be a problem or kink somewhere in the cable...I didn't know they were manual clutchs.

I'm familiar with the clickity-clackity noise that valves make (85 22re) this is definitely more of a knocking of a hammer on an anvil.

TJ

[Neu]

this ismost like the wrist pin going out.

stay away,my cylinder 3 exploded about 3 days after i gotmine...stay away fromit.

Or if you wanna do an engine swap for pretty cheap,buy it and buy a new engine and drive theold engine tillit blows.

[xirdneh]

I would give 350.00 max with a knocking engine and put another engine it, as long as the body and tranny were in good shape.
the engine probably leaks oil out the main seals anyway (with that many miles).
The knocking may go away and never come back ( i have had this happen).
If knocking quiets down after engine gets hot could be a cracked piston (seen that twice)
engine will go a long time (sometimes) on a cracked piston.

[Highlander]

The high clutch force might be (as I found out the hard way) indicative of not wiping off the old grease inside of the throwout carrier . I swapped over one engine for another along with the clutch and throwout bearing. I failed to wipe out the old grease inside of the carrier and also off of the guide collar that it rides on when I did it. The clutch now has a very high force that causes a graunch sound when pushed all of the way to the floor. The clutch disengages fine, and as it warms up will go all of the way to the floor without the noise.
Bottom line, the throwout bearing needs to come out and be cleaned up to work smoothly.
BTW I also did another clutch the next weekend, cleaning the grease off of the collar and replacing the grease inside of the carrier, and that one works smooth as silk.

[toyotaforlife]

Thanks for the advice. Seeing as they are hard to come by and I don't really care about the cosmetic, I'll buy it and then pull the engine. While the engine is out I'll tear it apart and check for the source of the knock and probably replace valves/guides and re-ring it. I'll also inspect the clutch/throwout bearing while the engine is out. Should be fun! I'll be sure to post some write-ups with photos of the process.

[ARCHINSTL]

Welcome to the Club!
Good Luck with the Terc!
Thanks for the offer of pix and write-ups; they will be appreciated by all.

A possible source (and certainly reliable info) for the OE sunroof seal would be Butler Toy in Indianapolis, at http://www.toyotaoemparts.com. Ask for Kyle or Mark. The have the best prices for OE parts (and free freight over a certain amount) - sometimes even less than non-OE parts at chain stores. They have done searches for me in the past and were always candid, courteous, and prompt. I've spent quite a few bucks with Butler on OE parts when I deemed them necessary (particularly for bushings).

As far as a non-OE seal, I would imagine other members have encountered a need for a replacement and would have some recommendations for subs. I replaced an OE on my beloved '86 626 power roof - boy, what a PITA that was.
Incidentally, the FSM available here has directions on the removal and replacement of the roof - probably a good idea to download it. It's 6 pages in my '86 FSM.
Tom M.
EDIT - This may be far-fetched, but possibly some of the strip window sealers at HomeDepot/Lowes might work - or maybe a "real" (traditional) auto parts store would have a good non-Toy sub.

[Mac]

it could potentially make a OK parts car.

see if he will take $200 or $300

[Highlander]

Since you're going to buy it, and pulling plug wires one by one shows that its not a rod bearing, Try something else before you pull the engine--- In the 70's I was working as a auto mech. and had a couple of instances where people never revved their engines up much, then if sthey did, they would knock a chunk of carbon off of the back of a valve. The carbon would then knock around inside the combustion chamber and make noise.
Here's the way to check-- take all 4 spark plugs out of the engine, and turn it over for about 5-10 sec max. If there's carbon in one of the cylinders, it should come flying out. PS, Watch your eyes if you're turning it over with a remote switch .

[Neu]

Since you're going to buy it, and pulling plug wires one by one shows that its not a rod bearing, Try something else before you pull the engine--- In the 70's I was working as a auto mech. and had a couple of instances where people never revved their engines up much, then if sthey did, they would knock a chunk of carbon off of the back of a valve. The carbon would then knock around inside the combustion chamber and make noise.
Here's the way to check-- take all 4 spark plugs out of the engine, and turn it over for about 5-10 sec max. If there's carbon in one of the cylinders, it should come flying out. PS, Watch your eyes if you're turning it over with a remote switch .

I tell my mom all the time "mom, every once in a while you have to rev your engine to around 5k rpms or so"

"Why chad!?"
"You need to clean your cylinders out, that's how you do it"
"that doesn't make any sense chad"
"Just do it, when you take off in first, let it get to 4.5k or so, that should be fine"

she also got better mileage the first time she did it.

[toyotaforlife]

I just drove my first Tercel home! I was a little suprised with how well it ran on the 20min+ drive back home over some steep hills. I also had a minor revelation on the way back, there might not be any knocking at all. I realized that the "knocking" I was hearing is probably (hopefully!) just an exhaust leak between the header and downpipe!

When I first looked at it I saw the telltale carbon build up right around that joint. Its dark now, so I'll find out for sure tomorrow. I also noticed a clunking noise coming from the front passenger side of the car, which I believe is the same clunking talked about in the Cautionary Caveat Concerning Clunks thread (http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtop ... f=7&t=2195.) So hopefully the only major issue I need to fix will be the throwout bearing.

[ARCHINSTL]

Congrats!
You are now off on adventures! Well, mechanical ones, anyway...
Download the FSM - and keep this link etched in your memory (or in your 'puter's electrons, anyway): http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repair ... 5895856A84.
It is AutoZone's Repair Guide, which is in many ways superior to Toy's FSM - it has pix instead of just line drawings; both should be used in concert, though.

Also Congrats on using the Search feature here. I thought that thread was pretty obscure by now. Incidentally, some of that clunking disappeared when I replaced the inner and outer tierods, as mentioned - the rest vanished when I tightened the strut bolts. These may have loosened when curbs and potholes were hit over Goldie's life in TN.

Let's hope that Highlander's advice (and/or your discovery) is the source of the knocking; keep us advised - any anecdotal info goes into the vast repository of Tercel Tips.
Tom M.

P.S. Get used to seeing frequent purchases of PB Blaster on your credit card bills...

[toyotaforlife]

Day 1- I got it sitting up on blocks and ready to pull the engine tomorrow. Everything is disconnected (some things already were!) A few questions:

Does anyone know what the broken piece in this photo is and where to get a new one?

IMG_8154a.jpg

Looks like the previous owner had broken it, then tried to jb-weld it to the vacuum hose. Then I broke it even more when I pulled it off.


I've heard that there is a FSM floating around somewhere on this site, where can I download it?

I'm also wondering where I can find bushings for the front end of my 83. Any sources?

[ARCHINSTL]

Bushings:
viewtopic.php?t=3203
These are good factory numbers, if you want to call your local dealer to match prices. Incidentally, the most important ones are the swaybar COMPLETE set - search for various members' horror stories of rusted swaybar ends-into-control arms (mine were rusty, too, but nowhere near as bad as some others').
Also check some recent threads on replacing the swaybars from Mac, keith, and moi - good tips.

'85 FSM:
Well - it used to be available here - seems to have disappeared - check with Neu?
Meanwhile - use the AZ link I posted earlier.

Mystery part:
Check the sticky on vac lines in Repair Guides - although it is for Federal cars. Is yours Fed, Canada, or CA? The AZ site has diagrams for all three iterations.
If yours is Fed, it looks like to me that should be the line from the carb to the choke breaker - not the CB to the steel spaghetti as in your pix - check the diagrams. The lines may have been misrouted over the years - when I got Goldie, several of her's were - pretty easy to screw up the lines, though.
Again - the lines and other check valves are different for the three emissions variants.
Tom M.