Smarmy Xmas stuff....

[takza]

http://www.andiesisle.com/didsheknow.html


...for those with seasonal emotional issues....

[MootsMan]

Thanks for posting a great link, Takza. It's a shame the real meaning of Christmas is lost on so many people......thanks to commercialization . Yeah, I know it started out as a pagan celebration to mark the return of the sun, and that most likely it's not the "real" birthdate of Jesus. It's interesting how cultures change things. What Christianity appropriated to mark the birth of Jesus now is endangered by "political correctness".

Merry Christmas to all of you !

[Petros]

Do not fall for the propaganda of the naysayers. It is totally irrelevant that the winter Saternalia was celebrated near the end of December. Those pagans and their religions are all gone, so the Christians win by default.

I looked this up some time ago and there were good reasons they set the day of commemoration of the Birth of Christ on December 25th and not on the "actual" date. The date was set according to a liturgical yearly cycle, where each week some aspect of the life of Christ was commemorated each Sunday (or "Lord's-day" the day of the Resurrection on the first day of the week). The day the Archangel Gabriel announced to Mary she will conceive was commemorated around the beginning of the 40 day great lent (the preparation for the Resurrection day or Easter) on March 25th. Nine months later was Dec. 25th, it simply coincided with the pagan winter festival. We know it was celebrated in Rome in the 2nd century on Dec. 25th, long before Constantine the Great became Emperor in 315 AD.

Besides anyone that lives in Palestine knows there would not be shepherds in the fields with sheep in late December, yet the Christians in the middle east still celebrate Nativity in the middle of winter (some are on a much older calender that sets Nativity on Jan 6th on our calender). The actual date was likely in late September when the census would be held after the summer harvest, but before the winter rains. The actual date is irrelevant since the important thing is that it actually happened, and that we commemorate this important event regularly. The early church set the day as pointing to something more important than a mere calender day, but fitting into the yearly worship cycle according to a theological reality that all hinges around the day of the Resurrection. It was done in a way that is not the way the "world" keeps time.

Though it was useful to have "substitute" holidays around the time when pagan converts were used to celebrating anyway. The early church did not consider the birthday that important (hence the reason they never recorded the actual day, unlike the Resurrection, for which there are detailed accounts of the actual date). This is likely the reason Christmas had become more important, many centuries later. We see the same effect on St. Valentines day, he was an early Christian priest who was unremarkable except he was put to death by the Romans on Feb 14th, a day of a pagan fertility rituals and celebrations (the common "heart" symbol was from this celebration). So many years later, St. Valentine was used to allow a "Christian" version of the celebration to occur, where St. Valentine became known as the patron saint of lovers. And that intimate relations can be celebrated within the Christian context of marriage and chastity. It does not mean these people or events did not happen.

While it is true that commercialization lengthened and distorted Christmas as a religious holiday, that has been a great boon to merchants who want to stretch it out as long as possible. But their silly attempts to make it "politically correct" to not cause offense is rather pathetic. There are many Budist, Muslim and Hindu merchants around the world who are very grateful for Christmas, and they know exactly the meaning of the day. Interestingly there are may Christmas tree sold in China, Japan, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. So how ever they want to honor that day if fine with me, it means that more people learn of the importance of that day.

BTW the Christmas tree was not pagan either, but rather a Lutheran tradition from Germany, as part of a "Liturgical play" where the fall from the "tree of Life" of Adam and Eve was played out on Dec 24th, with the "new Adam" being born the 25th, when the "gifts" can be taken from the tree.

The tradition of Saint Nicolas and Good king Wensuslas (both also real people and Christians) keeps alive their memory. They gave from their own wealth to needy families, especially with children, and they became the model of Christian giving.

Being informed about such things will allow you to correct modern ignorance and disinformation about some of the most important events and people in the history of the world.

Hope everyone had a good Christmas, and have a happy new year.

[takza]

Human beans are one of our more advanced species...they make big messes and then write books and stuff to explain it all. Very advanced.

[jetswim]

Interesting video:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 1&hl=en-CA

[Snax]

I did just post this Wikipedia link in the other thread on X-mas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

It suggests both concurring and contradictory information.

The one thing that we can all count on no matter how you look at it is that the source of the information will virtually always try to impose their own spin on it. People lie about a great many things, and allot of them like to write it down.

It would be naive to believe that the Catholic Church never omitted, distorted, or flat out misrprepresented the truth of the times. Likewise, detractors on the other side have likely levelled their own versions of history in spite of what really happened, so you won't find me arguing too much over the history of it here.

Given that, does whichever history of Christmas you choose to believe alter your feelings about the holiday? If an alternate version of it were true, would it change your religious ideology? Likely not in either case.

It is a pragmatic choice for me. As such, we celebrate the solstice and exchange gifts on the 22nd.

[ARCHINSTL]

While this is the Off-Topic Forum, this is the Tercel 4WD Club.
Let's debate and posture about the 4AC v. 3AC and the like.
Tom M.

[Typrus]

Whats wrong with a little religious debate? I'm not upset, is someone else?

EVERYONE is entitled to their beliefs.

[Snax]

It's a slippery slope. Thankfully we all have 4WD!