Vaporlock Vagaries...

Post by **ARCHINSTL** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:06 am

typrus, in another revived thread, brings up vaporlock; he is not the only one to mention this with our cars.
Now, our STL weather of late has been pushing 100 plus (and not minus much), and I have yet to experience this annoyance. Nor did I ever experience this in my '83 SR5 back in the day. In fact, I have owned a number of BritMobiles which had endearing (aka annoying) mechanical habits, but never experienced vaporlock. Whether or not this was because of the SU electric pumps, I do not know.

The last times I experienced vaporlock was back in the '50s with my '46 Ford flathead V8, which were notorious for this hot-weather failing. Most people simple travelled with a jug of water to pour over the intake manifold. The Fords were not the only offenders in this regard, though; just more notorious. And of course the gasoline grades/sophistication of the day were just slightly better than today's Zippo fluid.

Is this Toyota vaporlock confined to 3A-Cs, or mature Toyotas in general, or is it primarily a high-altitude phenomenon?
Tom M.

takza · Post by **takza** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:57 am

Some people claim that the gasoline back then (or earlier in the REALLY good old days) .... was better and allowed carbs that got 100 mpg. I suspect they are right.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:39 am

Its not that it was better, just less chemical fiddling was done to it. The primary thing added was lead for higher octane ratings. Because it was more raw, it was able to be catalytically cracked into more basic gasses, like methane and butane, and therefore burn more efficiently. Because of all the chemical additions made nowadays, the catalysts always clog up and can't do their job.

I've seen 1 20R Truck do it, but he wasn't running quite right. I only ever experience it when its hot out and my car is running excessively hot do to __. That and it typically only happens to me about 20 seconds after startup. So it happens as fuel that was vaporized earlier in the line either reaches the fuel pump or the float bowl. I've never had it happen mid-run.
Around here, many many vehicles with block-mounted pumps suffer in the summer.

Post by **ARCHINSTL** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:42 am

takza wrote:Some people claim that the gasoline back then (or earlier in the REALLY good old days) .... was better and allowed carbs that got 100 mpg. I suspect they are right.

I hate to disagree with the Grand Master, but the "100-mpg-carburetor-that Detroit-bought-to-keep-off-the-market" carb was/is just as much an urban legend now as then.
When the Morris or the Renault or the VW, et al, came on the market back in the mid-'50s, they were hailed as being "marvelously economical;" at maybe 25-29 mpg. Which they were, compared to the 15-16 mpg of the anemic Chev Stovebolt Sixes or the gutless Plymouths of the day. The Mercs and Olds and Caddys of the day had abysmal mileage, even when "high-test" was 21 cents per gallon.

My Grandfather actually worked at the first filling station in the United States, which was right here in STL - True - it was 1907! He was always incredulous when my beloved but gutless '52 Morris Minor 27-HP 918cc wonder got almost 30 MPG. I don't remember the exact figures, but he said his Model Ts, etc. never got more than the mid-teens in mileage; and those were one step above Gottlieb's first...

Honest to goodness, the "good old days," particularly when it comes to cars, just really weren't that good.
Tom M.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:19 am

A classic carbie won't get you all that great. The key was that these guys did a vaporizer/catalytic cracker. They were never made mass-production. I did talk to a guy who put a "Supercarb" on his old flat-head Ford V-8 (I think it was a 46?) and saw 50-ish mpg. Pretty darned good for an old flathead. Before that the best he ever saw was 22mpg coming down from the mountains on the interstate (lol) but I think he said 18 was typical. He moved to Washington State where he is busy restoring the body of the same car. That thing was beautiful... Until the Supercarb got clogged in the early 90's and refused to stay unclogged... He had to go buy a classic carbie. I think he went with a Holley.. Still only gets maybe 15mpg.

I also know a guy who used to get 24 with his old Buick. Again, a V-8. He said the key was smooth and easy acceleration, despite the enraged drivers behind you in their 502cu. inch muscle cars. He met a Ford F-250 a few years ago... Very intimatly on the passenger side. He said the Ford came out as bad as his car. Go Classic Detroit Iron

I dunno if he decided to keep it or not.. Haven't spoken with him in a while.

There are actualy proven patents for carbs that saw over 100mpg but never made production. Either due to their hazardous nature (gas being vaporized in a exhaust gas exchanger) or extreme complicatedness. Or good old conspiracy.

Hoi... My mom saw 40mpg in their 87 Terc... What you mean the good old days weren't that good... hehehehe

Post by **ARCHINSTL** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:19 pm

Typrus wrote: Hoi... My mom saw 40mpg in their 87 Terc... What you mean the good old days weren't that good... hehehehe

Typrus -
You are a nasty punk kid who has no respect for his elders ! ! !
Maybe if I put a universal turbocharger on my Goldie you would accord me the proper props....

Tom M.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:41 pm

Ummmmmm......... WTF? Alrighty then....... Sorry if you can't catch sarcasm buddy...

Punk? Well then..... (sighs) guess I better go get that mohawk and a band...

If I'm so disrespectful to my elders, why on Earth would I be sitting here reading through info my elders give me and paying attention to it, learning from it, and coming back regularly? And why wouldn't I cuss at my parents and act like I hate them?

Sorry man.

Post by **ARCHINSTL** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:09 am

Typrus wrote: If I'm so disrespectful to my elders, why on Earth would I be sitting here reading through info my elders give me and paying attention to it, learning from it, and coming back regularly?
Sorry man.

Typrus -
I have learned more from you than the reverse - and I do mean it. And I'm pretty sure my opinion is shared by most of us. As mentioned in the past, I admire your wide-eyed wonder at things mechanical and their possibilities. I remember similar wonderment and excitement when, as they say, " I was your age." We share the mechanical learning experiences and hopes and aspirations of our youth, save for the 50-year difference in the actual machines.

My post was totally tongue-in-cheek - maybe I should have written "whippersnapper" instead of "punk kid" to ensure the humorous intent.
The reference to "universal turbocharger" was a snide reference to the person who continually recommends that nebulous device as a panacea to whatever ails a car. The double line of emoticons was as a ditto to the last sentence; I thought it was a cute reference, but I guess I was alone.
Tom M.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:51 am

Heh.. Should've figured. Yes, whippersnapper would've shown a bit more of a comical side.
What you saw was the blend of a bad headache, bad day at work, siblings being pests, and therefore an unpreparedness for humor. Sorry.

I dunno... I've learned a whole lot from everyone on this forum as a collective. Theres so much knowledge to be found, if you'll just pay attention to logical advice. TD will learn one way or another eventually. Even if it means that he goes and tries a "Univ. Turbo" and blows up a few engines. He'll get it.