Solid Axle?

coltarms · Post by **coltarms** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:17 pm

Ok Typrus, calm down.....

The 4ac engine bolts up to our tranny. Does that mean that the RWD tranny out of a 4AC AE86 will fit our 3AC? If a RWD tranny can be found, then an adapter can be made to feed a (TA DAAAA) transfercase! That gives us RWD with selectable 4WD (or the option of twin-sticking the t-case and having Fwd, Rwd or 4wd with a High or Low range in each. Then the trick becomes a new front suspension/drivetrain.

Solid Axle or IFS?

Which would be easier for a Unibody? A coilover could be used where the current strut mount is, or a maybe leaf spring could be fitted? Using coilovers would require some sort of 3 or 4 link system. Leafs wouldn't. It seems that IFS may be a better way to go on this? Trackers are IFS with a solid rear, yeah?

Rear Suspension

Leaf springs in the rear would be great, and allow a lenghtening on the wheelbase. This would give us the ability to cut out the rear fender well WITHOUT touching the rear doors! maybe fit a 29" tire?

Thoughts?

shogun · Post by **shogun** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:57 pm

i woulduse the hilux traany but its a whole lot of fabrication and money

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:02 pm

Calm down?

It should. Main issue is how high up our engine is mounted. Look at the tranny. The bellhousing goes to a small box that transfers power down. With a straight-up RWD, the engine must be lowered. I suppose the support cradle could be lowered with spacers, but might be a tad risky with a 1+inch drop.

The GTS AE86 tranny will mount.

ANY tranny mounted to an engine that is of the "A" family will bolt up to our 3"A"-C engines. 4"A"-C, 4"A"-GE... etc. Its just a issue of location.

Yes, but a significant ground clearance would be needed to support a front-directed drive-shaft. At least for ours, where there isn't a tunnel built in for it.

IFS is superior to solids, but would be a bugger to get right. Leaf springs are inferior to coils, have a harsher ride, but would make life easier in terms of mounting (maybe).

Dunno. Would have to examine it more.

coltarms · Post by **coltarms** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:21 pm

There is a tunnel, it's just not very big. It could probably be cut and pounded out with minimal difficulty....

Combine a 1" motor drop with widening out the tunnel, think an AE86 tranny would clear? Ground clearance can be achieved with suspension and rails/plates can be added to protect the tranny/tcase. I may be way way off base here, but it seems to me that the hardest part of this would be the suspension. Can leaf springs be attached to a unibody?

Soutthpaw · Post by **Soutthpaw** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:09 pm

Leaf springs are primarily designed for heavy loads, coil springs will give you more wheel travel and usually a better ride.

IFS is not superior or inferior to solid axles. it depends on what you want to get out of it. for serious off roading the solid axle is by far superior. for on road handling and comfort IFS is a better choice...

I would try to avoid claiming one thing is better than another when talking about gereralities. Cuz someone (like me) will come along and invalidate your claim.

ghettomobile · Post by **ghettomobile** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:14 pm

yes it can. The jeep cherokee is a unibody, and strangely enough, I discovered the Volvos are also a unibody. I had always thought that volvo 240 series cars had a frame. Maybe some do. but yes you can attach mounts for leaf springs onto a unibody.

zipty842 · Post by **zipty842** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:11 pm

the old (79-83) corolla wagons were leaf spring rear, so theres already a rear axle set up for it that will fit.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:25 pm

Why does the Humvee use Independant versus solid? Better travel from point to point.
A well-funded ISS will eat a solid. Trouble is, those well-funded systems are VERY expensive. For the purposes of such things as low-speed rock-climbing, a solid is more practical in terms of parts and cost. For the purposes of a Baja race where 20+ inches of wheel travel are required at speeds in excess of 100mph at points, an independant will chew the solid.

I guess you could look at it this way. Stock solid axle > stock Independant. In terms of offroad. Not a lot of extra funding to the axle itself, other than maybe a stronger housing or what have you. If you can't afford to throw maybe $30k into each corner of the vehicle, then go solid for offroading.

I know none of us can, so I suppose for the purposes of realism, the solid is better.

Additional argument for the independant. What sticks down in the middle of the body connecting the wheels in a solid? The axle itself. Look at a 12-inch lifted truck. Sure, the body can jump up 12 inches, and you won't be hitting the oilpan, tranny, x-case or whathaveyou, but what if you take a heavy knock to the differential? Could spell disaster. What about an independant, properly built? Most of that middle space is now pure ground clearance, until the hypotenuses of the triangle that is the axle-wheel setup.

O---O
| | Where the axle is supported by links and shocks to the body
-------

O O
|\_/| Axles free and wheels supported by the spindles and shocks.
------

VERY crude diagrams, sorry.

Criminay! Sorry for the argumentative subject change.

I wasn't referring to the tranny tunnel. Was referring to the forward drive shaft tunnel.
I hate the idea of taking a hammer or mallet to by baby...

I'd have to know just how much higher the Tercs engine is. Guess I just am lazy or something lol.

ghettomobile · Post by **ghettomobile** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:09 am

Yeah, the humvee can go over things at speeds that would break a jeep. The downside to a hummer (not the grocery getter H2 or H3) is that it is too wide to go some places jeeps can. The H2 and H3 on the other hand, are about as suited off road as a shopping cart, plus they cost so much that the people who own them dont take them off road(except for Bam Margera, who is spoiled by MTV)(on one of the episodes, he put a campfire on the roof of it)

ghettomobile · Post by **ghettomobile** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:12 am

zipty842 wrote:the old (79-83) corolla wagons were leaf spring rear, so theres already a rear axle set up for it that will fit.

I was just looking at one in the junkyard today, and I am pretty sure they are coil spring in the rear, although I could be wrong(I might be thinking of the datsun rear ends).

Gasoline Fumes · Post by **Gasoline Fumes** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:36 am

coltarms wrote:Trackers are IFS with a solid rear, yeah?

Yes, the Trackers and Sidekicks have IFS with struts. If the Suzuki struts will fit in the Toyota strut towers, I'd just try using the front and rear Suzuki setup on the Tercel. Or make the Toyota struts fit on the Suzuki knuckle. Of course you could just get a whole Sidekick or Tracker and avoid all the work.

zipty842 · Post by **zipty842** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:22 pm

ghettomobile wrote:
zipty842 wrote:the old (79-83) corolla wagons were leaf spring rear, so theres already a rear axle set up for it that will fit.
I was just looking at one in the junkyard today, and I am pretty sure they are coil spring in the rear, although I could be wrong(I might be thinking of the datsun rear ends).

just the wagons are leafs, the sedans and coupes are coil

Soutthpaw · Post by **Soutthpaw** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:37 pm

if you want an easy conversion do a coil sprung solid axles and use existing mounts for control arms and weld basically duplicate the rear tercel setup on the front axle

a Solid axle is lower maintanence and more reliable than an IFS setup. I work on this stuff every day so just speaking from my experience. as far as off road racing they dont have to worry about reliability as they get to rebuild the whole thing after each race and even during in some cases. Also these vehicles are so modified that its like comparing apples to handgrenades... its 2 totally different worlds.
Also for ground clearance, you will never go less than the existing distance from the lowest point of the solid axle to the ground. however when putting extreme load onto an IFS the center of the vehicle drops lower than a solid axle. along with blowing the struts and shocks through the body/frame mounts and bending control arms etc.

Soutthpaw · Post by **Soutthpaw** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Yeah, the humvee can go over things at speeds that would break a jeep. The downside to a hummer (not the grocery getter H2 or H3) is that it is too wide to go some places jeeps can. The H2 and H3 on the other hand, are about as suited off road as a shopping cart, plus they cost so much that the people who own them dont take them off road(except for Bam Margera, who is spoiled by MTV)(on one of the episodes, he put a campfire on the roof of it)

Give me $120,000 the going price for a new H1 and I will build a Jeep that will run circles around any H1. The H1 will be broke long before the the jeep then. Actually they already eat up Half -shafts and CV joints like crazy!!!

coltarms · Post by **coltarms** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:56 pm

A traditional four link system may be an awful lot to ask of these little boxes. The metal is no where near strong enough to support that, in my opinion.

Typrus, what would it take to have the rear link setup duplicated in front? Maybe a 2 mount bracket/truss that could mount in the existing front control arm mounts and be reinforced to the body?

As to the building IFS vs Solid axle debate, I've seen amazing things out of both. I prefer a solid axle for offroad use due to it's simplicity, cost, and versatility.....or maybe I'm just biased 'cause I'm a Jeep owner! Isn't that ironic? I have a Jeep and a Tercel wagon. The people at Napa and U-Pull-It LOVE me!

Tercel4WD.com

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