The Party Wagon engine swap thread

[irowiki]

I figured I could just post one thread with issues about my first engine swap. I'm getting ready to swap an engine into the 87 FWD Wagon we've named Party.

I'm starting preparations now. The engine came out of an 81 Tercel and had been rebuilt 20,000 miles before it was pulled. I plan on replacing the front/rear main seals, timing belt, water pump.

I searched but can't find any concrete info (blame the search engine), how do you replace the rear main seal? I took the old clutch off, and clearly see the seal, with some sort of metal plate holding it in. Do I have to take off the metal plate around it, and if so, do I need a new gasket for that?

EGR: feels like this is like debating religion sometimes, but I'd like some opinions here. I'm thinking when I install the engine back into the 87, of leaving out the EGR system entirely. I'll never have to pass emissions and most seem to think it harms fuel economy.

Are there any other emission systems I can leave out that are for emissions only and don't impact cold/hot driving or fuel economy? Like the air suction system for the cat, for example.

[marlinh]

You do not need to remove the plate around the rear main. You can pop the seal out using a screwdriver or an actual seal puller. You slide the tool alongside the shaft into the seal and then pry it out at an angle.

[marlinh]

splatterdog posted this link to a great seal puller:

splatterdog wrote:Here's a fairly cheap tool for easy removal of front seals.http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-58430-Shaft ... B000FPYW4K

I found a youtube video showing its use (pretty neat!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtsGU2nLrJg
Tom M.

Hopefully this helps you Paul.

[Petros]

you will not see the seal by removing the clutch, but the flywheel has to come off too. leave the metal housing in place, and pop the seal out with a thin screwdriver, or you can make a tool. the seal puller tool above is pretty slick, but in 40 years of working on cars I never felt the need to have one. An ice pick with the tip bent over works pretty well, or even a large nail with the tip bent.

When you install the new one I put grease on the lip of the seal and light oil on the crank (starting with a dry seal will ruin it), and I also like putting some non-hardening form-a-gasket around the outside to kind of "glue" it in place. it is not really necessary, but it has prevented the seal from popping out because of a high crankcase pressure problem (that way you will only have one problem to fix, not that one plus replacing the seals that got blown out.)

[dlb]

i'm personally in favour of retaining the EGR. on a properly functioning engine/carb, it should have no noticeable impact. on the most recent project car, i enabled it and disabled it and didn't notice a difference in power or anything like that. and the exhaust gases lower peak combustion temps which combats predetonation, which is even more important if you like running with the base ignition timing advanced.

on top of that, we don't have any emissions laws here's so i often end up driving behind vehicles with lousy or no emissions stuff and it's obvious. i have to turn the fan to recirculate because of the stink of their exhaust, and i don't want to do that to other people.

i would replace all the other oil seals while you are at it too, paul--cam, distributor, fuel pump. the VC is easy enough to do in the car so you could leave it until you see if it leaks but i would do the others while the engine is out and they are easier to access.

i'm not sure about tercels but other vehicles i've worked on have required lock-tite on the flywheel bolts so don't forget that when you reinstall it, if it is in fact called for.

[Petros]

I highly recommend replacing all of the seals, hoses and any other parts (clutch, pilot bearing, etc) that is a lot of trouble to reach after the engine is installed. front seal and timing belt is one of those, cam seal not so much but worth doing if it is in question (inspect it, if it is soft and pliable, and no oil seepage, okay to leave it).

If your egr is good, than no reason not to install it. As well as any of the other emisions controls equipement, if it is faulty or is in your way, than leave it off.

You may also have to swap the oil pans so it will fit in the 2nd gen Tercel (depending where the engine came from), if you do I would pull off the #4 connecting rod cap and inspect the bearing. If you do not have to swap the pan than I would not bother unless you suspect some ran it without oil, even briefly.

David, The parts of the exhaust that the emissions controls is supposed to reduced you can not smell. CO, NOx, and HC are orderless and colorless (or colourless?), if you detect bad smells from the car in front of you it is not due to disabled emissions control system but some other malfunction.

[Gottolovem]

I won't lie i just want to track this thread with my phone
What about a weber? Some love them and some not so much

[irowiki]

You do not need to remove the plate around the rear main. You can pop the seal out using a screwdriver or an actual seal puller. You slide the tool alongside the shaft into the seal and then pry it out at an angle.

Thank you Marlene, you gave me encouragement to actually attack it with a screw driver!

you will not see the seal by removing the clutch, but the flywheel has to come off too.

Yeah, I had the wife on the other end with a breaker bar and I got the flywheel off. Seemed rusted!

When you install the new one I put grease on the lip of the seal and light oil on the crank (starting with a dry seal will ruin it), and I also like putting some non-hardening form-a-gasket around the outside to kind of "glue" it in place. it is not really necessary, but it has prevented the seal from popping out because of a high crankcase pressure problem (that way you will only have one problem to fix, not that one plus replacing the seals that got blown out.)

Hmm. I installed it before I read this, but I coated the entire seal in motor oil first. Do I need to redo it with glue?

Here it is:



The right side as you see it is not exactly flush, off by maybe 1/32 of an inch. Will that matter?

i'm personally in favour of retaining the EGR. on a properly functioning engine/carb, it should have no noticeable impact. on the most recent project car, i enabled it and disabled it and didn't notice a difference in power or anything like that. and the exhaust gases lower peak combustion temps which combats predetonation, which is even more important if you like running with the base ignition timing advanced.

I will keep this in mind...

i would replace all the other oil seals while you are at it too, paul--cam, distributor, fuel pump. the VC is easy enough to do in the car so you could leave it until you see if it leaks but i would do the others while the engine is out and they are easier to access.

I have a new fuel pump I'll be installing and I think it included gaskets in the box. One of the gaskets may be broken though... I also have a new valve cover gasket, and a distributor oring gasket. I did not buy a cam seal based off the other thread I started about what to get, but I can before I start the "mini rebuild".

You may also have to swap the oil pans so it will fit in the 2nd gen Tercel (depending where the engine came from), if you do I would pull off the #4 connecting rod cap and inspect the bearing. If you do not have to swap the pan than I would not bother unless you suspect some ran it without oil, even briefly. [/img]

There's still oil in there, he drained most of it out before selling it to me. I forgot all about the oil pans, I guess I need to order an oil pan gasket. It came from a tercel sedan first gen so I'll double check to see if they're the same or not.

i'm not sure about tercels but other vehicles i've worked on have required lock-tite on the flywheel bolts so don't forget that when you reinstall it, if it is in fact called for.

Party is an automatic Perhaps the flex plate is locktited too?

I won't lie i just want to track this thread with my phone
What about a weber? Some love them and some not so much

Yeah I'm pretty stoked. Overwhelmed, but stoked!

I've heard the webers don't do so good in cold climates, and I have to deal with cold!



So I have another question. Where's a good place to get longer bellhousing bolts so I can mount the engine to my engine stand? 12Mx1.25

[Gottolovem]

You can get regular bolts from home depo there is no need for grade 8 high strength bolts for an engine stand.

[irowiki]

Home depot sadly had nothing in 1.25

OR had nothing long enough.

Going to try a fastener place tomorrow.

[Gottolovem]

WOW
Lowes?

[irowiki]

Local place called Ju Lus.

Didn't try Autozone or Lowes yet.

http://www.boltdepot.com/Metric_hex_bol ... .25mm.aspx
Metric hex bolts, Zinc plated class 8.8 steel, 12mm x 1.25mm

longest is 120mm tho, not long enough I think.

[Petros]

NAPA auto parts is usually good for such bolts, but any specialty supply will have them. I would be surprised if a big box hardware store has bolts like that. BTW, I think head bolts are that size, but I would not use the ones for the engine, only use extra ones you will not be reusing.

no reason to redo the seal, should be fine. I would however use a pace of wood or plastic and tap that seal down so it is all flush. It should still work but why take a chance? lots of trouble to have to replace that seal if it leaks, and you will not know it leaks until after it is all in and the engine running. easier to get the seal all the way in now, careful however not to damage it, just get it even all the way around. A section of pvc pipe the right size and cut perfectly square could helpful, but usually I just tap it in with a plastic mallot, working my way around until is it all flush with the seal housing.

I have never used locktight on the tercel flywheel bolts, but I did make sure they were very clean, no lubricant, just clean, and torqued them down to spec.

[irowiki]

Oooh. I could try taking some head bolts out of the blown engine!

[marlinh]

Head bolts are 11 mm if I remember correctly.

Great that you attacked that seal Paul with a screwdriver. That's all that is required. The seal definitely needs to be installed square or you risk the potential problem of leaks.

I made my own engine stand bolts by welding extensions onto whatever bolts I have on hand. If you prep what you want and don't have a welder handy, I am sure a shop would zap them together for you for a small charge.