VW diesel into T4?

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
User avatar
Jooseppi Luna
Advanced Member
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:55 pm
My tercel:: Hopefully getting a T4 this summer :->
Location: Chelmsford, MA

Re: VW diesel into T4?

Post by Jooseppi Luna »

splatterdog wrote:80's vw diesel? Wow. Last one I experienced, at idle and parked, the dash was bouncing like driving over washboard. Better add a lot of dynamat.

Consider me more of a realist than naysayer. I know, if you don't have something nice to say... But, I've never done(or seen) a diesel swap. Seen lots of swaps. To gas that is. Many domestic 80's diesels got converted. All were bolt in deals. Over the years, I've also have had to convince lots of people that alternators, water pumps, tires and other essentials are a good idea. Elective surgery such as this conversion is way out of most peoples grasp, in ability and/or finances. Finding a machinist will be the easy part. Finding an auto shop to touch it before,during,after will take a miracle, unless you bring a blank check. Many would turn it away completely stock, just because of it's age.

Sorry if I come across as a glass half emtpy kind of guy. Being inundated with broken cars, some with broken owners, for half my life does take a toll!

My most radical coversion, a mazda engine in a mazda. The owner was waayy over his head. It was a 3 rotor in a rx. After over 150 hours it was time to finally add coolant and soon attempt start. Too bad the owner had leak tested the engine with straight water and didn't fully drain it. A middle segment had a ruptured water jacket a couple inches away from the drain plug that was't utilized. Nothing like starting over after all that time and money. Working on it for months between regular cars sucked too. Was frequently waiting for parts or money. And he thought it was close to running when he handed it off to the shop. A better project at this same shop was stuffing a 502 crate engine in to 81 cutlass. It was a total beater at the beginning with a 3.8 v6. I started after the initial build(built the exhaust system though), but got to add a supercharger and nitrous to it. The one nice thing on projects is a client that doesn't ask how much, just when will it be done..

Good luck!
Heh :->. I come from a different background, where I have seen many people swap Mercedes diesels into everything from Toyota 4Runners and Jeep Wranglers to a 1989 Astro van (this last swap I have seen in person -- it was done by the guy who's work I pictured in the first post). I'm wondering if the diesel you sat in had bad injectors, motor mounts, engine shocks, maladjusted valves, or other common delayed maintenance issues that make diesels shake like the dickens.

I do appreciate the warning against how crazy a swap can easily get. I'll be starting college this fall for a mechanical engineering degree, so I should gain access to all sorts of machining and other tools during those four years that would make doing the swap much more affordable. I'd probably start by buying a VW diesel parts car and keeping the motor, and then trying to acquire a T4 (this will be the hardest part, given my location). I have garage space, so the project could stretch over multiple years if necessary).
CathodeRayTube wrote:My Diesel T4 project is still slowly progressing, and will never be abandoned...i have been busy with many things lately so it has been dormant for a while, however in the last several months i made much progress. In a nutshell, Im using the 1N-T toyota Turbodiesel ordered from Japan, which is essentially the toyota counterpart to the VW 1.5/1.6...It is 1.4L, Indirect injection, all-mechanical, and was purchased for $1600. It was originally in a 90s JDM Tercel. I gave up on the VW plan a while ago (but not the whole project) because it was so much easier to stick with toyota parts and order the toyota engine. The 1N-T will bolt up to the T4s tranny with no adapter, and only minimal modification to the flywheel (diesel bolt pattern drilled in stock 3A flywheel), and a modified oil pan to clear the front differential case and steering hardware. I am currently actively working on the custom oil pan, and hope to have it running on a stand soon. Stock starter also bolts to the whole thing fine.

Custom engine mounts will also be in order, but thats relatively simple also. The 1N-T is also actually smaller/shorter than the 3A, so i have plenty of space for everything. I have verified that everything will fit together with the simple mods above, its just a matter of time/motivation and weather (no, not even money), until i have the car running & driving with the new engine.
I've been reading your swap thread, and it looks really cool :->. I can understand the benefits of an engine that... fits. I guess I'd just like to see if I can get the engine to fit. If I can, then almost all repair parts would be commonly available around here, which is something I'd like to achieve.
Last edited by Jooseppi Luna on Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current vehicles: 1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD Turbodiesel with 211,000, 1994 Buick Century with 50,000, and a 2004 Toyota Corolla 5-speed with 153,000 (not mine, but I drive it)

I also have 8 vacuums, 8 typewriters, 5 sewing machines, and two lawnmowers...
User avatar
Jooseppi Luna
Advanced Member
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:55 pm
My tercel:: Hopefully getting a T4 this summer :->
Location: Chelmsford, MA

Re: VW diesel into T4?

Post by Jooseppi Luna »

Since some of you seem to be puzzling over why I'd do this, let me just state flat-out that I'm a total dieselhead :mrgreen:. I like their uniqueness, economy, simplicity, and clatter. I like that my Mercedes doesn't need a battery to start, run, or shut down.

Gassers just aren't the same, although I do love my Buick :->.
Current vehicles: 1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD Turbodiesel with 211,000, 1994 Buick Century with 50,000, and a 2004 Toyota Corolla 5-speed with 153,000 (not mine, but I drive it)

I also have 8 vacuums, 8 typewriters, 5 sewing machines, and two lawnmowers...
User avatar
Jooseppi Luna
Advanced Member
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:55 pm
My tercel:: Hopefully getting a T4 this summer :->
Location: Chelmsford, MA

Re: VW diesel into T4?

Post by Jooseppi Luna »

OK, some "research" (Googling when I should be in bed) here:

It appears that the VW is fitted with three engine mounts, one in the front of the car and two near the firewall. I can't, for the life of me, find the picture where I saw this, so I'll have to snap my own next time I hit the yard. I assume that the T4 has one mount on each side of the engine?

The T4 engine bay looks like this:

Image

So I'll have to make sure the oil pan works with the front diff etc. Fortunately, according to these diagrams, the oil pump and dipstick are on the front side of engine, which would become the driver's side in the T4 and would put them on the other side of the front diff setup.

Image

Image

The oil pan therefore should be moddable to fit the car.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Current vehicles: 1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD Turbodiesel with 211,000, 1994 Buick Century with 50,000, and a 2004 Toyota Corolla 5-speed with 153,000 (not mine, but I drive it)

I also have 8 vacuums, 8 typewriters, 5 sewing machines, and two lawnmowers...
User avatar
Jooseppi Luna
Advanced Member
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:55 pm
My tercel:: Hopefully getting a T4 this summer :->
Location: Chelmsford, MA

Re: VW diesel into T4?

Post by Jooseppi Luna »

It looks like the starter is on the same side in both cars, which is a good start. I can't imagine that VW would put the starter on the backside of the engine... right?

It looks like the VW tranny has a tall slope on the top but the T4 doesn't -- this might make an adapter plate work well.

EDIT: Someone did a rebuild on a VW 1.6 TD and documented the whole thing! From there I pulled a picture of the tranny end of the 1.6:

Image

Here's a diagram that includes that part:

Image

Not as high as I thought, but still looks higher than the T4.

Hmm... looks like the starter may be on the rear (?). I'll see when I hit the yards next weekend. It also looks like the motor may have one mount on each side and one on the passenger's side, contradicting what I thought was the case. Again, time to hit the yards...
Last edited by Jooseppi Luna on Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Current vehicles: 1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD Turbodiesel with 211,000, 1994 Buick Century with 50,000, and a 2004 Toyota Corolla 5-speed with 153,000 (not mine, but I drive it)

I also have 8 vacuums, 8 typewriters, 5 sewing machines, and two lawnmowers...
User avatar
Jooseppi Luna
Advanced Member
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:55 pm
My tercel:: Hopefully getting a T4 this summer :->
Location: Chelmsford, MA

Re: VW diesel into T4?

Post by Jooseppi Luna »

Side-by-side:

ImageImage
Current vehicles: 1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD Turbodiesel with 211,000, 1994 Buick Century with 50,000, and a 2004 Toyota Corolla 5-speed with 153,000 (not mine, but I drive it)

I also have 8 vacuums, 8 typewriters, 5 sewing machines, and two lawnmowers...
User avatar
Jooseppi Luna
Advanced Member
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:55 pm
My tercel:: Hopefully getting a T4 this summer :->
Location: Chelmsford, MA

Re: VW diesel into T4?

Post by Jooseppi Luna »

I'm pumped about this.
Current vehicles: 1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD Turbodiesel with 211,000, 1994 Buick Century with 50,000, and a 2004 Toyota Corolla 5-speed with 153,000 (not mine, but I drive it)

I also have 8 vacuums, 8 typewriters, 5 sewing machines, and two lawnmowers...
User avatar
CathodeRayTube
Top Notch Member
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:23 pm
My tercel:: 1985 4x4 Automatic - restored
Location: Gettysburg Pennsylvania

Re: VW diesel into T4?

Post by CathodeRayTube »

I second what you said about being a dieselhead...same reason for my build, among other projects i have not mentioned on here (6.9l Ford IH diesel into 88 lincoln town car, hybrid diesel/electric Mercury Grand marquis using same said VW diesel and an electric forklift motor...). Dont let the naysayers get you down...but its also important to keep your expectations realistic. If nobody picked up on this yet, i do own 3 Tercels, as well as 2 1981 Rabbit diesels...so if anybody needs pictures or measurements of the engine bays, or engine blocks for either car id be happy to take a few. Im going to be posting pics of my homebrew oil pan for the toyota diesel soon on my original thread for that. I know the VW swap is possible, its just more time consuming & costly than what im doing. you have all of my encouragement to do it and i hope to see it finished (but not before mine is done..lol). I think its actually been done before also...i recall somewhere on this forum somebody mentioned hearing about somebody else who did it in florida perfectly.. i know they sell kits to put the things into suzuki samuris...

As for the vibration factor, what the other guy said (dlb? petros? dont remember..) is definitely true. the VW diesel, and likely my toyota one also, is extremely vibrational...just by nature, even with nothing wrong with it.
86 T4 DX 4x4 - Diesel Swap project
85 T4 DX 4x4 Automatic
83 T4 SR5 - junker/parts
94 4Runner V6
86 Mercury Grand Marquis
88 Lincoln Town Car
90 Yugo GV+
85 F250 dually 6.9 turbo diesel
81 VW Rabbit Turbo diesel project
User avatar
Jooseppi Luna
Advanced Member
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:55 pm
My tercel:: Hopefully getting a T4 this summer :->
Location: Chelmsford, MA

Re: VW diesel into T4?

Post by Jooseppi Luna »

CathodeRayTube wrote:I second what you said about being a dieselhead...same reason for my build, among other projects i have not mentioned on here (6.9l Ford IH diesel into 88 lincoln town car, hybrid diesel/electric Mercury Grand marquis using same said VW diesel and an electric forklift motor...).
I’ve fantasized about doing the first swap before (though I was thinking along the lines of a Country Squire or Colony Park, but those are hard to find), but the second one would never even have entered my head! Wow!
CathodeRayTube wrote:Dont let the naysayers get you down...
Don’t worry about that. If I let the naysayers get me down, I’d have more money and spare time and less clutter than I do now.
CathodeRayTube wrote:but its also important to keep your expectations realistic.
I must have wax in my ears. What did you say?
CathodeRayTube wrote:If nobody picked up on this yet, i do own 3 Tercels, as well as 2 1981 Rabbit diesels...so if anybody needs pictures or measurements of the engine bays, or engine blocks for either car id be happy to take a few.
Oh, cool! At this point, the only thing I’d be curious to know is how the engines are mounted in each of the cars. I’d appreciate the information!
CathodeRayTube wrote:I know the VW swap is possible, its just more time consuming & costly than what im doing. you have all of my encouragement to do it and i hope to see it finished (but not before mine is done..lol).

Thanks! I’ll be in college for mechanical engineering for the next four years, and I’m counting on working in the labs there and getting access to machine tools for my own use occasionally, so hopefully that could help to keep costs down. That’s part of the reason I’d like to do it sooner rather than later -- it’ll be a lot cheaper within the next four years. I was figuring I could try to get a T4 and the VW engine this summer and then work on it during January break and then next summer.
CathodeRayTube wrote:I think its actually been done before also...i recall somewhere on this forum somebody mentioned hearing about somebody else who did it in florida perfectly.
Oh really? I’ll have to see if I can find him. Is he on the forum?
CathodeRayTube wrote:As for the vibration factor, what the other guy said (dlb? petros? dont remember..) is definitely true. the VW diesel, and likely my toyota one also, is extremely vibrational...just by nature, even with nothing wrong with it.
All right, good know. I guess Mercedes has spoiled me :->.
Current vehicles: 1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD Turbodiesel with 211,000, 1994 Buick Century with 50,000, and a 2004 Toyota Corolla 5-speed with 153,000 (not mine, but I drive it)

I also have 8 vacuums, 8 typewriters, 5 sewing machines, and two lawnmowers...
Post Reply