FWD broken, 4WD = RWD only

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Riff
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My tercel:: 1986 & 1987 SR5 Wagons
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Re: FWD broken, 4WD = RWD only

Post by Riff »

Here are some photos for Petros, hopefully they aren't too large:

Image

Image
I think it's interesting how the splines cracked and twisted.

Image

There's some fuzz from my rag on that last one that I didn't see while taking the photo, I could probably get it one a little cleaner too.

Remember also that I drove it home so there has been some grinding of the ends against each other.
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Petros
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Re: FWD broken, 4WD = RWD only

Post by Petros »

Nice pictures, but unfortunately they spent too much time rubbing against each other to tell anything for certain, the surfaces are smeared over with blue spots. All of the original surface is distorted and smeared. One thing that I can see is there does not appear to be any rust in the face, when there is an old crack or defect sometimes rust will form there, and after a fresh break you can see the rust spots, so you know there was an old crack.

With a clean face you can see if it was a ductil failure (simple overload) or if it was working fatigue cracks inward, weakening it, until it failed. Near as I can tell it was a ductile failure, it just sheared off all at once. Each one of those spline cuts was a major stress riser and it appears the failure initiated at each one of the spline bases, you can see that there is a failure plane that radiates inward from the base of each spline groove. A different spline design may have prevented that, but I suspect it was just an overlaoded condition, the metal was too weak or the cross section was not large enough for the amount of torsion load it had when the spinning tire hit the pavement.

If it was a remanufactured axle, the original manufacturer would be the culprit, and who knows since I have seen different types of axles (from different manufacturers) inside a pair of axles from a reman company. They often do not even attempt to match the type from left to right side. If it is not too old you might consider sending it back to company that did the reman. Otherwise just turn it in for scrap. Buy new and there is no core to return.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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ARCHINSTL
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Re: FWD broken, 4WD = RWD only

Post by ARCHINSTL »

GSP axles are now sold at Advance under the new marketing name of ToughOne. They are still $60 each.
AutoZone now shows an apparently new axle called Duralast Gold, at $70 each. Its reman is just Duralast, at $60 each.
O'Reilly shows new axles called MasterPro Select at $74 each - dunno the company.
I got my GSPs from RockAuto in late 2007; it now carries the EMPI brand.
Tom
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Riff
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Re: FWD broken, 4WD = RWD only

Post by Riff »

I ordered EMPIs and have installed new seals and some other parts that were due (shock mounts, brake lines). I have a quick question regarding the diff/trans combo-- I drained the front diff using the obvious drain plug, to get any shards of metal out and to see if I could get the broken axle end out. Put all back together and a quick look in the manual that the diff takes 2 pints of 80-90w. Put in two pints, but it didn't flow out of the hole, so I got some more in and it took another whole quart and still didn't overflow the hole! By draining the diff did I drain the transmission of oil too? I didn't really note how much came out, it took a long time to drain, but I figured it was due to the cold. The FSM is confusing as it shows what appears to be a number of drain and fill plugs. It says to fill at the 'transfer adaptor' in the body of the text (page MT-70, looks to be on the passenger side and about impossible to fill with trans in the vehicle), but the exploded diagram shows(and labels) a filler plug on the drivers side of the transmission case. This plug on my transfer adapter is rounded from a PO's vice grips and will not budge. It has a small shoulder and the casting prevents using a nut splitter to grab it. From what I gathered from posts on here, I can refill it through the fill plug on the front diff, but it only took a little more than 2 quarts, nowhere near the 4 quarts it's supposed to take. Its hard to tell but looks as though the fill hole on the transfer adapter is higher than the two on the trans and diff. If I were to refill from the diff, would I need to jack up the front to get all of 4 quarts in there? So many options makes it confusing...
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ARCHINSTL
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Re: FWD broken, 4WD = RWD only

Post by ARCHINSTL »

There are many posts on this with varying methods.
DON'T futz with the transfer adaptor; it is NOT a filler orifice!
Drain using all three of the trans/diff plugs (but make sure you can fill from at least the front DS hole first).
After installing the three drain plugs, unscrew the rear one 7-8 turns, as the FSM mentions - this is to allow oil to flow from the front to the back of the transfer case. You can fill from the rear right filler plug, but most of us just use the left front for convenience.
I've never gotten the full 4.1 quarts in before the front and rear filler holes overflowed, so obviously some oil always does not drain - or the FSM is lying.
The right rear filler plug is hard to access, but quite doable with a flexy tube on the filler pump.
Do a Search here for info - also check out the TOOLS section for mods to sockets and boxends to avoid rounding the soft filler plugs.

Easier draining in cold weather is achieved by using a hairdryer on the trans - or a hot air gun - or another heat source (been there-done that). Also warm the new oil by putting it on a radiator or in the air flow from the furnace.
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
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dlb
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Re: FWD broken, 4WD = RWD only

Post by dlb »

tom nailed it.

the diff, trans, and transfer case all share their oil so yes, by draining the diff you drained the whole shbang. i think most of us fill it from the front driver side, which is just aft of the driver side CV. i stick a flexible hose down into there and connect it to a funnel up between the dizzy and battery but there are lots of other methods mentioned in the various threads here.
Riff
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Re: FWD broken, 4WD = RWD only

Post by Riff »

Archinstl--Thanks for the reply. I have put the front of the car up on ramps and go out every now and then and pump a little more in the front fill plug, just behind the axle. Almost up to 3 quarts now, back drain plug is backed out the seven turns and I have been running the wood stove in there all day so everything is relatively warm. Perhaps there was some oil trapped in the transmission, as I did not pull that plug, so as soon as no more will go in, I'll close it up and call it done. The old oil came out surprisingly clean, and this is a pretty low mileage rig so I think what old oil that was left in there will probably not cause me a problem (fingers crossed). Too bad there isn't a way to add personal notes to the FSM for reminders about things like the transfer adapter plug.

Petros-- Puzzling over the fracture of the axle the other day and your comments... I'm familiar with identifying old cracks by the rust inside, but could rust develop in stress fractures on the axle inside the diff with 80-90w splashing around?

Thanks everyone for your help.
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Petros
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Re: FWD broken, 4WD = RWD only

Post by Petros »

I always fill from the front left plug that is next to the CV axle, I jack the front left side of the car up to make it the highest point on the trans. I have always gotten 4 quarts into it, I use a clear hose and a thread-in oil filler adapter (the are cheap, most auto parts stores have them, and Wal-mart auto dept too). I hang a 1 gallon jug ups side down from the open hood (with bungee cords or string) and punch a small hole in the bottom of the jug with knife to allow air in it. And than I can watch the oil flowing through the clear tube, usually takes about 30 min, done while I do other maintenance on the car. I will know when all 4 quarts are in when the hose is empty.

Rust can still for inside where there is oil, but yes it would be difficult to see if there was no moisture to get in the tiny crack. Typically you will see shinny little parallel lines that look like a shore line (they are sometimes called "beach lines"), but if the surface is all ground up like yours it will be hard to pick them out. It looks like an overload failure.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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