Setting correct timing

[MootsMan]

Ok, guys, y'all know that I dont' have a lot of experience turning wrenches and getting into the guts of the engine, etc. However, I did get the timing belt installed on my car last week, and it actually started after I finished the repair. BUT.....(there's always a "but")....it kicks up to 2000RPM, then dies. It will not idle at all. I'm pretty sure it is a timing issue.

Here's my question. How do I set the timing ?? I see all kinds of references here to setting timing, but nothing on how to actually do it . Do I have to take all the stuff off and get down to the bare crankshaft pulley ?? or can I do it without going through all that again ?? I tried to get everything lined back up again when I re-installed all of it, but it's obvious that I didnt' get that accomplished. I'm sure it's due to my inexperience, but the manual didnt' make a lot of sense to me on how to put it all back together again.

Also, another question regarding this repair. The manual shows a piece called the "timing belt guide", and I cant' tell where it goes from the picture. Does it go next to the pulley that the belt rides on under the lower timing belt cover ? I am sure my car did not have this . What can y'all tell me about it ?? I broke two sockets trying to get the crankshaft pulley off a car at the junkyard trying to find one. I NEED HELP !!!!!

[shogun]

i took teh pages you need from the fsm hope it works

sorry link has no longer the pics

[Typrus]

Buy a timing light? I know they work fine for Ignition, dunno if they do jack squat on cam though.

[takza]

Most likely will have to break it down again...espec if you didn't touch the dist.

* get it at TDC 1st...and go from there. I took the starter out and put a c-clamp on the flywheel to loosen/tighten the pulley bolt.

With this kind of job...if you can't say you understand the procedure...it's best to stop until you do....since there is a high probability you will have to do it over again. At least it's a non-interference engine.

[badmechanic]

whats non-interferrence mean?

[takza]

With some engines...if the t-belt breaks...the valves hit the pistons...and you've got a big repair bill.

[Typrus]

Valves push into the combustion chamber to allow exhaust out and intake air/fuel in. If the timing belt or chain or gears break, then the camshaft stops moving. This can, depending on each cylinder and the position of the camshaft, leave some valves pushed far out into the combustion chamber. If the pistons keep moving up and down, when they move up, they can strike the valve and creat a world of problems inside your engine. If this is possible in an engine it is called an "Interference" engine (the valves would "interfere" in the travel of the piston in the event of a camshaft stoppage). In an engine where the valve at full open and the piston at top dead center do not hit each other, it is referrred to as "Non-Interference".

[MootsMan]

Thanks for the information to date, guys. I appreciate everybody's input. However, I still can't get this thing timed right. When I did the initial install on the timing belt, as I said, it would crank up to 2K RPMs, then would die. I took it down again, fooled with the pulleys and tried to get everything lined up according to instructions, put it back together, then when I cranked it , idle was at about 200 RPMs. No good ! Back down again, CAREFULLY check everything and line up the camshaft pulley with the hole at the top ( just as the instructions show), and line up the timing marks on the crankshaft pulley with the mark on the block, AND also with the 0 mark on the lower timing belt cover. Put it all back together again, and now i'm back where I was after the initial timing belt install.....cranks up to 2K RPM's and then dies.

I am reasonably sure I had cylinder # 1 at TDC......it was visible thru the spark plug hole, and the lifter at the very front of the engine was at it's highest point.
Everything was lined up according to the instructions in the FSM.

Is there something else I need to be looking for ?? I'm about to tear it down for what will be the 4th time, and needless to say getting a little frustrated.

I never have taken the distributor off. Could I have a problem there ?? Could something have happened with either the camshaft or the crankshaft in the process of my installing the belt ?? I read something somewhere on here about the lifters being loose......mine are all tight ....is that a problem ?? When the timing belt failed, it appeared to have simply come off of the pulleys.....thanks to someone in the past not having installed the timing belt guide ( which I picked up at the Toyota dealership for less than $2 US). Some of you are probably getting a good laugh out of this, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know a lot about what I need to be looking for. I mean, I understand the concept of timing and having it right, just don't know the mechanics of figuring it out. HELP !!! I dont' want to have saved $300 on a timing belt repair to then have to pay a mechanic $300 to set the timing for me.

[Chris]

I'm not sure what you mean by "the lifter at the very front of the engine was at its highest point". To be sure that #1 piston is at TDC the crank timing mark has to be on 0 degrees and both front lifters (#1 intake and #1 exhaust) have to have some movement in them (assuming the valve lash is not too tight) indicating they are both closed. Also pull the distributor cap and make sure the rotor is pointing to #1 spark plug wire.
It sounds like you timed the cam correctly. Did you tension the belt correctly?(rotate the crank two revolutions clockwise, then tighten the idler pulley bolt) Recheck the cam timing at this point. Then double check that the dist. rotor is pointing at #1 plug wire.
If it's any consolation...I bet you're getting real fast at tearing into the timing belt.

Hope this helps. Good luck. (if I lived near you I would come over and help)

[takza]

I think there are 2 positions where the piston is at the TOP...that is why you also have to have the dist pointing to number one....and be sure the rocker arms on no 1 are LOOSE.

You need to do a BASIC timing job on it..make sure all of the above are TRUE.

Is the key that holds the crank gear in good shape?

Possible that you've had some valve/piston interference. Maybe the head has been shaved? Do the marks on the cam gears line up exactly?

And be careful as far as the belt tension....

I'm not laughing too much...having done this job 2Xs myself 2 months ago.

[Typrus]

If it means anything, I have absolutely no idea how to do cam timing, how to change a belt... Heck, I couldn't get the damned timing belt cover off (stupid blocked bolt.. <grumble>) I'm not laughing, I trying to absorb every bit of knowledge I can.

I may have missed this, but, does it just fly right up to 2000 and croak without any throttle manipulation, or does it have good power and response that far then the power dies off, or does it respond that high then the engine shuts down?

[MootsMan]

Y'all are going to get a kick out of this. I decided to tackle this thing one more time, so this afternoon I went at it again. ( BTW, Chris, I AM getting pretty damn good at timing belt replacement... ). I get the radiator and fan out, take the air cleaner and valve cover off, get the belts and pulleys off, then the timing belt covers. I look at the tensioner, and I haven't installed it correctly. There's a hole in the bracket that allows it to pivot, and that wasn't sitting in the correct place. So, I figure that's my problem ( it wasn't , but I think it might be somewhat critical that I found it, anyway). I even take off the distributor and make sure that it's pointing to #1. I get it back together again, start it up, thinking surely it has to be fixed now. Everything looks like a GO !! Crank it up.....revs to 2000 RPMs, and dies.

I crank it up about 3-4 times....then I hear it.... ....a vacuum leak !!! I go back under the hood, check things out, find a hose that I had overlooked that attaches up under the air cleaner. Plug it in, check all the other vacuum hoses, fire it up again, and FINALLY it's running right !!....idles smooth at about 900 RPM. I drove it into Nashville tonight with no problems other than the temp gauge showed it running a little hotter than before, but that is most likely due to the new temp. sending unit I had to install after the terminal broke off the other one when I had to unplug it to get the wires out of my way.

SO....thanks to all you guys for your input. It is much appreciated, and was very helpful. Like the guy said at the Toyota dlrshp. when I purchased the timing belt guide, these cars are good cars to learn on . Well, I am learing !! B)

Now, dont' laugh too hard at me for saying this, BUT changing the belt actually isn't all that hard. You just have to be sure , like Takza said, that you have a good understanding of all that's involved. That's the beauty of this forum ! Y'all are great !! I saved myself from spending about $300-$400 to get this repair done by doing it myself !

[Eatpants]

hahaha i did that once but luckily remembered it

its a good learning experience

[takza]

I've missed that hose under the air cleaner a couple of times...once you have to take the cleaner back off a few times...you start to remember that hose..... <_<