Lifting a Tercel!?!
-
3A-C Power
- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 849
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:22 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
-
offroadTercel
- Newbie
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:08 pm
OK, custom springs...
What about leaf springs vs. coil springs?
If we're welding new suspension points anyway...
A guy at Olympic offroad said "4 piece suspension lift, that would be a nightmare!"
The only thing holding us back at the moment is lack of cashflow, oh and
3-AC it would be great to have you design us something safe and legal and relatively simple to put in (doable).
We have to put 27" becouse that is the smallest SuperSwampers that are made.
Also, the front tires will need more room for turning then, and with a different engine, the CV shafts are a concern. The current ones need replacing now anyways, but I would think that we would need longer, sturdier ones for lifting. So are they worth replacing?
Oh, yes we do have access to a welder, and a plasma cutter as well.
What about leaf springs vs. coil springs?
If we're welding new suspension points anyway...
A guy at Olympic offroad said "4 piece suspension lift, that would be a nightmare!"
The only thing holding us back at the moment is lack of cashflow, oh and
3-AC it would be great to have you design us something safe and legal and relatively simple to put in (doable).
We have to put 27" becouse that is the smallest SuperSwampers that are made.
Also, the front tires will need more room for turning then, and with a different engine, the CV shafts are a concern. The current ones need replacing now anyways, but I would think that we would need longer, sturdier ones for lifting. So are they worth replacing?
Oh, yes we do have access to a welder, and a plasma cutter as well.
-
3A-C Power
- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 849
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:22 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
I'll get onto some measurements soon, and hopefully come up with something. Besides the job search, I have nothing to do but mess with the Tercel. How wide are the tires? What size of rim are you planning to use? If you've got a welder and a plasma cutter, it shouldn't cost that much. You shouldn't need more than $100 of steel either. Using stock parts as a basis for modification will save alot of money, e.g. lengthening stock arms eliminates the need for custom bushings and ends, and only requires a piece of pipe. Of course if you want to go the full 9 yards, fully custom adjustable length arms could be done. The front is where we'll really have to get creative. The stock swaybar will have to go, as will the stock control arm, and a proper fore/aft support will have to be added. The only way I can see getting enough turning clearance includes moving the front wheels out, increasing loads on the suspension mounts. Supports between the mounts and upper strut tower bars should take care of this.
-
Gasoline Fumes
- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 692
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:54 pm
- Location: New York State
-
GTSSportCoupe
- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 1626
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:14 am
- Location: Victoria BC, Canada
I say buy an 80's Toyota 4x4 truck chassis and stick a tercel body on top! 
No one will know the diff; you'll have more power and it'll still be a toyota. 
No one will know the diff; you'll have more power and it'll still be a toyota. Current:
91 LJ78 Landcruiser EX5
95 A32 Maxima SE
Former:
87 AW11 MR2 Smallport 4AGZE
93 Taurus SHO ATX
86 AL25 SR5 6spd 4wd
90 AE92 GTS
82 KP61 SR5
85 MX73
87 AE86 GTS 4AGZE
85 AE86 GTS
83 AL21
91 LJ78 Landcruiser EX5
95 A32 Maxima SE
Former:
87 AW11 MR2 Smallport 4AGZE
93 Taurus SHO ATX
86 AL25 SR5 6spd 4wd
90 AE92 GTS
82 KP61 SR5
85 MX73
87 AE86 GTS 4AGZE
85 AE86 GTS
83 AL21
hey there,
for what its worth, i've done a [spring] lift on my 1992 AE95 corolla 4wd. I imagine the spring setup is different, but here is some info - i'm not going nearly as high as you guys are talking about....
rear: live rear axle, replaced stock coils with rear coils from a ford falcon [EL]
The corolla coils are ~15inches high and are made of 12mm steel. The falcon springs are about 17inches high and are made of 14mm steel. 50mm lift.
front: macpherson struts, coil over. Replaced coils with Mitsubishi Magna [TN] ones. 30mm lift.
these cars that i got the replacements off are the australian name/model designations. You may not get falcons where you live...
I would be wary of going to high on a spring lift alone as the CVs will get shagged pretty quickly... So i guess what i've done is at one end of the spectrum - a quite moderate lift. What your suggesting is at the other end of the spectrum - i agree with what Thereminator said...
It was suggested that a 50mm/2" spring lift on the front would half the life of the CV's.
just out of interest - what 15" rims are you going to put on? I'm looking for 15" steel rims with a 4x100pcd and can't find anythign...
cheerio
Tim
for what its worth, i've done a [spring] lift on my 1992 AE95 corolla 4wd. I imagine the spring setup is different, but here is some info - i'm not going nearly as high as you guys are talking about....
rear: live rear axle, replaced stock coils with rear coils from a ford falcon [EL]
The corolla coils are ~15inches high and are made of 12mm steel. The falcon springs are about 17inches high and are made of 14mm steel. 50mm lift.
front: macpherson struts, coil over. Replaced coils with Mitsubishi Magna [TN] ones. 30mm lift.
these cars that i got the replacements off are the australian name/model designations. You may not get falcons where you live...
I would be wary of going to high on a spring lift alone as the CVs will get shagged pretty quickly... So i guess what i've done is at one end of the spectrum - a quite moderate lift. What your suggesting is at the other end of the spectrum - i agree with what Thereminator said...
It was suggested that a 50mm/2" spring lift on the front would half the life of the CV's.
just out of interest - what 15" rims are you going to put on? I'm looking for 15" steel rims with a 4x100pcd and can't find anythign...
cheerio
Tim
I have a writeup over in that section on modding the suspension some. I use those circular rubber spring boosters and "saddle" type boosters that can be found everywhere in the US.
The advantage of doing it this way is low cost...and when you boost the spring, you also compensate for the increased height by stiffening the spring.
My Bentley manual has specs for the ride height for the wagon, but I haven't checked mine yet. The original springs probably have sagged after 200k miles, but the way I have it boosted probably would raise new springs by 1/2" in the back and maybe 1" in front. Results in what seems to be a pretty much balanced boost.
You could try the Ford Escort GT wheels...15" X 6" alum rims...pretty sure they would fit...assuming you have a variation of that car there.
Check the writeups page on wheels...carparts.com allows a search on used wheels...you'd have to interpret to the cars available there though.
The advantage of doing it this way is low cost...and when you boost the spring, you also compensate for the increased height by stiffening the spring.
My Bentley manual has specs for the ride height for the wagon, but I haven't checked mine yet. The original springs probably have sagged after 200k miles, but the way I have it boosted probably would raise new springs by 1/2" in the back and maybe 1" in front. Results in what seems to be a pretty much balanced boost.
You could try the Ford Escort GT wheels...15" X 6" alum rims...pretty sure they would fit...assuming you have a variation of that car there.
Check the writeups page on wheels...carparts.com allows a search on used wheels...you'd have to interpret to the cars available there though.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
i have successfully raised my 86 SR5 a good 2" from the orginal (sagged Spring) level. It is amasing how much difference that it makes when you are four wheel driving. I would think that i have raised my cel as high as would be possible before poblems such as driveshaft length start to arise.
Firstly i Ordered some new springs. King Springs in Australia. I ordered the standard level, to my suprise were considerably higher. 1.5". i put these in easy enough, but found that the macphersons were topping out. I could rock the front of the car and hear the struts topping out. I then took the springs back out and made aluminium packers to fit inside the macpherson. The problem was that i needed longer strut stroke. I was only using the top of the strut. having put the packers in, i bolted the strut back in. The nut which holds in the strut now exposes more of the thread, allowing enough for it to still work properly and not strip the thread. I also made some washers to fit underneath the top of the macpherson. (below the top bearing plate) The washers fir onto the strut and therefore takes up some of the excess thread on the top of the strut. The main idea was to use the most of the excess thread on both parts to get more stroke. I did try to get another strut that would fit, but i could not find one.
I drove the car around for a year like this, however i wanted to get the back higher as when it had any load in it , it sagged a fair bit. I had only put the new springs in the back, which did raise it a little. I found at work some very hard conveyor belt rubber about half inch thick. After looking in a 4wd shop got the idea of making rings to fit on top of the springs. I made two rings on either side, raising the car another inch at the rear. I simply cut a ring to fit up inside where the spring fits over the bumb stop. I made this from the belting rubber so as it would mould to the shape of the curve up in there. It worked perfectly, and after i reinstalled the spring with the rubber washers on top i could see a considerable difference. The car tilts slightly forward now, but with two people in the back it makes it level.
This has made a considerable difference to the hight of my cel. I sometimes park next to other cels in shopping centre carparks and really see how much difference there is. I only have 13" wheels on my car and hope to put 14" on when i get the money. I have a friend with a 90 model subaru who has put a 2" body lift kit in. When our cars are side by side and we both have 13" wheels on, our cars are at the same height.
I drive this car everyday and have had it past registration checks here in Australia several times. To gain any further hight would require much more work. The front Struts top out rarely now, mainly when im 4wding over bumpy conditions. but it does not seem to pose a problem.
I would be happy to answer ant uestions anyone might have on the lift. Im not an engineer, just someone with a little nouse. when i get around to it i will post some pics. (if someone tells me how) will definately post pics on my yahoo group
<a href='http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tercel4x4' target='_blank'>http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tercel4x4</a>
have only just started the group so not much on there yet.
Firstly i Ordered some new springs. King Springs in Australia. I ordered the standard level, to my suprise were considerably higher. 1.5". i put these in easy enough, but found that the macphersons were topping out. I could rock the front of the car and hear the struts topping out. I then took the springs back out and made aluminium packers to fit inside the macpherson. The problem was that i needed longer strut stroke. I was only using the top of the strut. having put the packers in, i bolted the strut back in. The nut which holds in the strut now exposes more of the thread, allowing enough for it to still work properly and not strip the thread. I also made some washers to fit underneath the top of the macpherson. (below the top bearing plate) The washers fir onto the strut and therefore takes up some of the excess thread on the top of the strut. The main idea was to use the most of the excess thread on both parts to get more stroke. I did try to get another strut that would fit, but i could not find one.
I drove the car around for a year like this, however i wanted to get the back higher as when it had any load in it , it sagged a fair bit. I had only put the new springs in the back, which did raise it a little. I found at work some very hard conveyor belt rubber about half inch thick. After looking in a 4wd shop got the idea of making rings to fit on top of the springs. I made two rings on either side, raising the car another inch at the rear. I simply cut a ring to fit up inside where the spring fits over the bumb stop. I made this from the belting rubber so as it would mould to the shape of the curve up in there. It worked perfectly, and after i reinstalled the spring with the rubber washers on top i could see a considerable difference. The car tilts slightly forward now, but with two people in the back it makes it level.
This has made a considerable difference to the hight of my cel. I sometimes park next to other cels in shopping centre carparks and really see how much difference there is. I only have 13" wheels on my car and hope to put 14" on when i get the money. I have a friend with a 90 model subaru who has put a 2" body lift kit in. When our cars are side by side and we both have 13" wheels on, our cars are at the same height.
I drive this car everyday and have had it past registration checks here in Australia several times. To gain any further hight would require much more work. The front Struts top out rarely now, mainly when im 4wding over bumpy conditions. but it does not seem to pose a problem.
I would be happy to answer ant uestions anyone might have on the lift. Im not an engineer, just someone with a little nouse. when i get around to it i will post some pics. (if someone tells me how) will definately post pics on my yahoo group
<a href='http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tercel4x4' target='_blank'>http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tercel4x4</a>
have only just started the group so not much on there yet.
Interesting to hear how you boosted it.
I'm going to put on new struts sometime soon and might want to do the same kind of thing you did. I'm not exactly clear on the details though.
Guessing that the "packer" is a metal spacer used under the strut to increase it's height? And the washers at top to increase the strut rod length some?
Your original front springs were sagged by 1.5" when measuring free height?
Here are the specs for RIDE HEIGHT for the '83-'84 4WD wagons:
FRONT: height is measured from the CENTER of the inside pivot of the Track Control Arm to the ground = 234.9 mm / 9 16/64".
REAR: height is measured from the CENTER of the front pivot of the Trailing Link (long link front of axle..both sides) to the ground = 273.5 mm / 10 24/32".
* There is a very slight difference between the OEM 70 and 80 series tires...I averaged.
Larger tires/wheels make a difference in height for sure...and this also gets everything up some, including the diff. But it also it reduces the effective power at the tread some.
With my limited offroading...so far...the most effective change other than raising the car some has been the tires. A sticky and aggressive tread works wonders on grass and hard earth and on stone...compared to the the cheaper hard treaded tires. Easier to crawl at slow speed without having a tire lose traction.
As far as the Yahoo group...we are in the process of moving over here...I think. But, we need an easier way to upload pics in order to share ideas better.
I'm going to put on new struts sometime soon and might want to do the same kind of thing you did. I'm not exactly clear on the details though.
Guessing that the "packer" is a metal spacer used under the strut to increase it's height? And the washers at top to increase the strut rod length some?
Your original front springs were sagged by 1.5" when measuring free height?
Here are the specs for RIDE HEIGHT for the '83-'84 4WD wagons:
FRONT: height is measured from the CENTER of the inside pivot of the Track Control Arm to the ground = 234.9 mm / 9 16/64".
REAR: height is measured from the CENTER of the front pivot of the Trailing Link (long link front of axle..both sides) to the ground = 273.5 mm / 10 24/32".
* There is a very slight difference between the OEM 70 and 80 series tires...I averaged.
Larger tires/wheels make a difference in height for sure...and this also gets everything up some, including the diff. But it also it reduces the effective power at the tread some.
With my limited offroading...so far...the most effective change other than raising the car some has been the tires. A sticky and aggressive tread works wonders on grass and hard earth and on stone...compared to the the cheaper hard treaded tires. Easier to crawl at slow speed without having a tire lose traction.
As far as the Yahoo group...we are in the process of moving over here...I think. But, we need an easier way to upload pics in order to share ideas better.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
-
aussie 4x4
- Newbie
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:12 am
- Location: Australia
Basically the idea with the front strut is to compress the strut more to bring it back to its normal travel position. it was in its top end of stroke so the metal packer and washers are helping the strut to compress more so that i would gain more top end travel.
The front springs were sagged 1.5" when they were under load on the car. When they were out, freestanding they were around half inch shorter. The new springs were also heavier. Made of thicker steel.
Thanxs for the ride height specs. i will check mine out when i get some extra time. Are those specs also applicable to the 86 - 87 models?
The front springs were sagged 1.5" when they were under load on the car. When they were out, freestanding they were around half inch shorter. The new springs were also heavier. Made of thicker steel.
Thanxs for the ride height specs. i will check mine out when i get some extra time. Are those specs also applicable to the 86 - 87 models?
I only have height info for the '83-'84. Looks like the front alignment specs changed some after '85...so the ride height might be slightly different.
Someone with an '86-'87 manual would need to look that info up....somebody with the Factory manual...
I'm going to find a flat spot and see what I have and post it.
Someone with an '86-'87 manual would need to look that info up....somebody with the Factory manual...
I'm going to find a flat spot and see what I have and post it.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
I have taken the Measurements of the height of my raised 86 SR5 using the measurements that were provided by takza (thanks). I have only small profile 13 inch (185/65/13) tyres on and using the measuring method as descibed by takza my vehicle sits
Front 250mm
Rear 310mm
with larger profile tires say 70 or 80 i predict
Front 260mm
Rear 320mm
or thereabouts.
with 14 inch wheels (which i will be getting when finances do) the height would increase another 12mm. so Front 272 Rear 332.
So, with the lift as i described in an earlier post and the replacement of my tires to 14 inch. I would say i have a 60mm lift at rear at 40mm lift at front. Or for you Americans out there 2" 3/8 at rear and 1" 5/8 at front.
The measurements given by takza were those from a workshop manual (I asume) and would not consider sagging that all tercels would now have (being 20 years old or so). Having said that, the actual lift that i have gained would be considerably more than what i have stated. (since my car felt like it was dragging on the ground beforehand)
Would love to get all other Tercel owners to compare these measurements! I would be very interested in what others have come up with. Can we get these cars any higher safely?
Front 250mm
Rear 310mm
with larger profile tires say 70 or 80 i predict
Front 260mm
Rear 320mm
or thereabouts.
with 14 inch wheels (which i will be getting when finances do) the height would increase another 12mm. so Front 272 Rear 332.
So, with the lift as i described in an earlier post and the replacement of my tires to 14 inch. I would say i have a 60mm lift at rear at 40mm lift at front. Or for you Americans out there 2" 3/8 at rear and 1" 5/8 at front.
The measurements given by takza were those from a workshop manual (I asume) and would not consider sagging that all tercels would now have (being 20 years old or so). Having said that, the actual lift that i have gained would be considerably more than what i have stated. (since my car felt like it was dragging on the ground beforehand)
Would love to get all other Tercel owners to compare these measurements! I would be very interested in what others have come up with. Can we get these cars any higher safely?
-
aussie 4x4
- Newbie
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:12 am
- Location: Australia