My engine died completely.... :(

snotmonkeybawls · Post by **snotmonkeybawls** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:34 pm

so the engine on my 83 terc is gone. the previous owner did a number on the engine so now i have a tercel with everything else in working order. so i need your guys help. what kind of engines can i put in place of the 3AC it has? and what kind of work will be involved in putting the new engine? will i need to replace axles etc.? or even better, where might i be able to find a used 3AC?

[technically it can still run but last i heard it's not burning gas correctly and water is seeping in all sorts of places. but what do you expect for an engine with 310,000mi/498897km?]

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:19 pm

Your right, you should retire than worn-out 3A-C if possible, in fact my '83 has the same issues as yours (i.e. water seemping into the head and cylinders due to a blown head gasket). You can put a 4A-C engine in lieu of the current 3A-C. This would be the easiest option for 12 more horsepower if you take the 4A-C off of a FWD Corolla. There are other engine options like the 4A-F(E) and 4A-GE, but those of course are not "bolt-on" as the 4A-C is. Depending on the condition of the rest of the components in the car a good idea would be to replace your clutch and fix other things while the engine is out.

There are many places where you can locate a 3A-C or 4A-C. You can check out your local wrecker or junkyard, but chances of finding a good, low-mileage engine might be low in a wrecker. GTSSportCoupe bought his engine from a wrecker (3A-C) and so far he hasn't had any major trouble with it. The other two options would be a local Japanese engine importer or finding a reconditioned or rebuilt engine, but this can be costly (buying a rebuilt engine), usually upwards of $500. However, clbolt can tell you about an excellent source to get a 4A-C for cheap. He can tell you a lot more than I can. Good luck.

snotmonkeybawls · Post by **snotmonkeybawls** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:45 pm

so what kind of engines would be more of a bolt on besides a 4AC? i was thinking maybe about swapping an 80s mr2 engine or a 22r. idk if it's physically possible but i need to change the engine for sure. the clutch is also gone but i can replace that when i pull out the engine.

clbolt · Post by **clbolt** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:21 pm

The 4AC is the only bolt-in alternative. You can go with the MR2 engine, but that'll involve a custom flywheel and clutch, and then you have to work out the fuel injection and manifold issues. Forget about a 22R, unless you're up to machining an adaptor to bolt it to the transmission, and working out the engine mounts, clearance issues, and the torque problem (a good 22R would rip the guts out of a Tercel transmission).

I'd suggest buying one of the rebuilt 4AC long blocks available on ebay for $315 plus shipping. Use the manifolds, oil pan, and accessory mounts from your 3AC, and you'll be set for quite a while. If you need more power, go with a hotter cam and a Weber carb.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:04 pm

a 4A-C is deffinatley the easiest way to go, if your not up to doing anything radical, just get the 4A-C, i would steer away from another 3A because the tercel could deffinatley use more power.

the best part about the 4A-C is that its power band is the exact same as the 3A-C's (peak HP and torque are made at the same rev's) so your tranmission is still suited for the engine.

if you want to go all out, get a late model 4AGE short block, and then put on all the 3A-C parts. the later model 4A blocks were stronger due to a revised casting, it has oil cooled pistons, and the internals are stronger because the engines redline is 7500RPM unlike the 3AC and 4AC's 6000RPM redline.
the only thing i don't know is if the 4AGE pistons will interfere with the SOHC head's valves or not. from what I have read, the tercel engine mounts should still work on the late model 4AGE block.

Carguylen · Post by **Carguylen** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:10 pm

There is a place called Reseda Engines (Reseda, CA) that sells the "low mileage" used Japaneese engines. They have an ad in the Recycler, it's small, so you'll have to look for it. The guy says they sell them for I believe $375 for a 3ac and $475 for a 4ac, and they install it for a few hundred more. And offer a small warranty

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:20 pm

I believe the only non-bolt-in part of a 4AGE is the flywheel and exhaust. Of course, you then get into fuel lines and all that good stuff. Along with mutilated stock transmissions.

I think a 4AC would be great because of that increased power. 12hp may not sound like much, but compared to the stock engine, its a lot. Stock tranny will take it. Not sure if all the accessories will mount up perfectly. I remember someone did this and did a big ole write-up, but I can't seem to find it...

snotmonkeybawls · Post by **snotmonkeybawls** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:21 am

well what i'm looking for is great gas mileage in the engine. if it comes with more power then that's an added bonus. i am interested in a 4AC but i was also considering a truck engine or even a diesel engine off of the 1985 Toyota trucks. i have seen and heard of many people who have dropped in the "indestructible" truck engine into 80's celicas and the toyota van wagons. i mean if there is an engine i can put in that will not be too much of a problem as in swapping parts, than that is fine. like typrus said that if i put in an 4AGE engine, i need to change the clutch and the exhaust. if it's minor work like that, then what kind of engine swaps are there that involve minor work?

P.S. the engine is out of the car so it's ready for swapping parts. and also a thanks you very much to everyone who has helped me with my problem. thanks a lot guys!!

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:55 pm

FH Bible did a 5A-F swap (carbureted) and that swap might be a little easier to tackle than a EFI swap. I guess this swap would call for minor work. I believe they have 90 hp. I guess this would be the threshold for which the Tercel's drivetrain will not take much more power before the inevitable self-destruction of the drivetrain, I would put it. You can find the 4A-F engine from a late 80's 88-89 AE86 Corolla SR5. I don't know about the gas mileage this engine gets, but at the moment FH Bible is experiencing some carb related issues.

You also have to decide if the work would be worth to get the extra refinement of a fuel-injected engine in your vehicle. The 4A-FE or 7A-FE I think would be a good candidate like GTSSportCoupe says because of the hp and torque characteristics for off-roading and 4WD situations.

One thing I'm worried about is having to hammer in the firewall to accomodate the distributor. There are a few DLI engines that can be swapped into a Tercel and that includes the 5E-FE (I believe not all of them have DLI) and some 20v 4A-GEs. I don't know much more than this, but I know there are a few more engines that have DLI and fit the Tercel. Another important issue I would say would be that of the hood clearence, that should be taken into consideration when selecting an engine for a swap.

I saw a FWD AE82 Corolla (4A-LC engine) that really moves; it chirps the tires and immediately accelerates. I'm sure that a 4A-C with a Weber carburetor would prove to be sufficient for a 4WD Tercel. To me the $315 4A-C on eBay is good enough to keep some fuel economy while providing some useful extra horsepower. A clutch with more grip would be nice as well. The best part of all is that it doesn't require much more work than installing a 3A-C.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:17 pm

If its anything like swapping a 3AC, I'll say this- make sure you keep track of those bolts, of what plugs go where, of what vacuum hooks where, and keep a level head. Its not hard, just takes some thinking and common sense. Heck, this is coming from a 16-year old who swapped an engine solo. If you have experience and a helping hand, then it should be a breeze!

I've been looking at the 4A-FE as well. I believe it had 105 hp, 105ft/lb torque though. Right on the extreme border of stock tranny death.

20v was getting 42mpg highway on a turbo'd 4AGE if I am not mistaken. It would make sense, similar displacement with much higher power means less effort on the engine means less fuel sucked.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:19 pm

If you wanted to do a diesel, I'd think it might be cool to look into a VW diesel from 95-97. They are WAAAY too torquey for the stock tranny at 155 ft/lb torque, but in our 3200 lb Passat we get 40-50 mpg (average). Advantage of the TDI engine is that its very quiet and if taken care of, goes forever.