tranny question

[couve terc]

Hello,

Still on the quest for a tranny. Just have one question. Ive got a tranny at a local wrecking yard. Its on a 83 and mine is the 87. I know this one will fit, but the gearing is different. My question is what out of the 83-88 have the 3 something gearing? I know the 83 does. And what has the 4 somethin gearing. Like the 87.Or am i better off just getting tranny with transaxle and replacing both, to make it work. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Tony

[rer233]

Tony- '83-'84 had 3.73's, '85 and up had 4.10's. I'd get the trans axle ass'y from the donor car and also take the rear axle center section- easy enough to do- just slide the axle shafts out, disconnect the rear driveshaft and unbolt the center section from the rear axle housing. The whole "pumpkin" will come out then. The tranny wiring connectors may be different between the two tranny versions so you should cut the plugs from the donor car's wiring harness. Also you're going to loose the "el" light on the dash 'cause the early trannys don't have the switch for it.

Good Luck- hope this helps, Rich.

[xirdneh]

remember the transaxles contain the differential
the tranny is a seperate item
if you leave the transaxle in the car you can swap the 83-88 trannys
just remove and/or seperate the tranny from the transaxle
the early trannys do not have electric sensor for granny gear
you will never miss it

[couve terc]

awesome i think i understand. preciate the quick responses. so is the 4.10 a better setup?

[irowiki]

Comes down to user preference. For me, living out in the middle of nowhere with lots of highways, I like the 3.7, but would love to test the 4.1 up the mountain passes someday.

[dlb]

i personally prefer the 3.7's but it really doesn't make a huge difference. you're still driving a slow, underpowered old station wagon, and it feels just like that to me regardless of the 3.7 or 4.1 gearing.

[rer233]

I second dlb's reply- i've got two t4's with 3.7's and one with a 4.1. The 3.7's seem quieter @ highway speeds and the 4.1 accelerates quicker in all-out drag race mode (tho it's no 1/4 miler.) I prefer the 3.7's.

[drege]

Alwase wondered this.

[Petros]

I have driven both with different engines too. The 4.1 has a definite advantage if you drive steep hilly terrain, much easier starting from a stop on steep slopes, and as noted above, pulls away from a stop much better. I suspect much better in snow as well. But for highway driving not only is the engine make more noise, it seems you are much closer to being on the back side of the power curve so you are close to running out of engine for accelerations for say passing at highway speeds, and have much less reserve power on say going over a pass at high speeds (such as when on the fwy).

I have had built up engines that provide just a bit more power, perhaps about 90 hp (mild performance build 4ac with 3ac carb set up), I do not have the problems with steep gravel roads or starting from a stop on a steep hill (takes some proper clutching), but the extra power seems to make up for the taller gearing. so with the extra power of a built 4ac I still have enough low end power to get moving, but also get the lower cruise RPM with it at hwy speeds. The 4ac btw, also means you loose a mile or two MPG economy in city driving, but at highway speeds with the 4ac, fuel economy loss is hardly noticeable. So with a 4ac, you get what you loose in low speed performance and stil retain the benefits of the 3.7:1 final drive.

[ARCHINSTL]

I would think the ultimate practical T4WD would be with a 4AC and stock ratios, depending on your daily requirements.
For highways, the 3.7 ratio, and for urban use, the 4.1 ratio.
I owned a then-new '83 and did not really appreciate the silence and lower revs until I got Goldie ('86) in 2005.
The MPG is irrelevant.
Of course, being retired and driving but 4K+ miles per year, it is all pretty much inconsequentional.
Tom M.

[Petros]

Eventually I will complete my "ideal" Tercel4wd GT-S twin cam EFI with the 4age engine swap. I have chosen the 4.1:1 final drive for that engine because all of the vehicles that engine comes in has that or even lower diff ratio and it is a high reving engine. So the higher cruise rpm is more likely where the engine is optimized for as a daily driver. I suspect the 4age twin cam is also a much quieter engine anyway since it does not have rocker arms, rocker shaft, etc. the simpler drive train, and perhaps the EFI intake manifold, should have less engine noise anyway.

[drege]

Did you really just say DOHC/EFI/GT-S in the same sentence with T4WD?
Is that even technically possible?!?!?
Aren't you talking like a little under 200HP with a setup like that?

[dlb]

Did you really just say DOHC/EFI/GT-S in the same sentence with T4WD?
Is that even technically possible?!?!?
Aren't you talking like a little under 200HP with a setup like that?

larry did it a while back, turned out great. he chronicled the whole thing. surprised you haven't seen the thread yet, i'm sure it's one of the most viewed on the forum.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7576

[Petros]

Yes, I did type that, it is the "performance" model T4wd that toyota never made but should have. A "twin-cam, EFI, GT-S Tercel4wd".

Here is my dream Tercel list of improvements, I am slowly working my way down it accumulating parts:

4age engine swap with full conversion to EFI, mild performance build (lightened flywheel, cleaned-up ports, custom exhaust, balanced, adjustable cam sprockets to "dial in" better low end performance, and possibly improve fuel economy too).

Brake upgrade to larger front disks (done), eventual conversion to rear disks and LSD rear diff if possible.

GTS (from corolla) large dia front struts, performance springs.

Larger dia and wide alloy wheels and low profile tires (done)

Better seats, right now have MR2 seats (perfect size and better "fit"), but I would like to take the stock SR5 seats and rebuild them with extra padding in the right places and perhaps make leather covers for it. But that remains a "wish list" item, may never do it.

Custom paint, clean up trim and details on the outside (black-out, etc), possible redesigned composite front and rear bumpers, stream lined, lighter and smaller (saves weight, improve looks). this too is wish list item, but I may never do.

Adapt the MR2 instrument cluster to the Tercel. They are similar looking to the Tercel SR5 cluster, but it has four gauges instead of two (oil pressure, volt meter, plus temp and fuel), and the tach redlines at 7400 rpm.

The first gen MR2 puts out about 120 hp in USDM trim, I expect a bit more, but not over 130 HP (which is plenty). There are engine tuners that have gotten up to 475 hp out of the 4age, but any more than 120 hp may trash the trans and drive train. Larry's 20 valve later style 4age puts out some 180 hp or so, he also improve the fuel economy some too. There is a turbo verion of the 20 valve 4age that puts out about 240 hp in stock form, but I do not want the complication of making that work, and that would very likely over power the Tercel chassi, making it difficult to control and likely eat up the rest of the car with broken parts, short service life, etc. using the almost stock first gen 4age should give me a very reliable and manageable installation in the Tercel4wd.

[drege]

Wow, yea I had skimmed it once, saw the first pictures and thought it was just painting the engine bay - Sorry larry!
Just now finished looking through it.
Yea I was wondering that, how much is too much power to try and streamline through the drive train and chassis.
Maybe PZEV conversion, damnit, they are doing it to engineless DMC12's down in huston, why not a T4WD PZEV?