Opened Pandora's Box - Toyotacide

[Tobal]

Hello everyone!

New member, long time fan of Tercel 4WD--been courting my 83 SR5 for a couple years now. Got her in pretty good shape from a friend for $850.00, original owner with only 127,000, minor body work issues, bad a/c compressor, leaky boots, bad front seal, and some minor vacuum troubles. Despite her problems she runs awesome, and hasn't let me down. Nevertheless, I've resisted dropping a bunch of money on her, mostly because I'm broke, but also because I've considered major work on my SR5 akin to opening Pandora's box. But, the clutch finally quit, and I decided it was time to take the plunge.

This is my first clutch job, but I got the manual and went for it. Got her torn apart without too many hiccups. Made the mistake of dropping the tranny, without the transaxle. Whoops! But, in a strange twist of fate it was that mistake that led me to a major problem. As I was turning the transaxle over, I heard the heart dropping clink of metal falling on metal from inside my differential. I popped the cover to find three sheared teeth from the drive pinion. I suffered a minor heart attack as I read the procedure to disassemble the carrier assembly. But, as you probably all know that isn't my biggest problem. It's finding an -expletive- front differential. After much time on the phone, and Internet yesterday, I found a carrier assembly for $350.00. More than I wanted to pay, but seemed reasonable enough so I ordered it. Unfortunately, the guy called me back to let me know the place he's getting it from won't sell it without the tranny ($695 with shipping to Oklahoma) I guess because of the unique transaxle/differential case.

I'm not seeing any other options right now, what do you all think--should I do it? Any other ideas?

[irowiki]

Have you tried http://car-part-com ?

This looks promising:

http://goo.gl/C7K1FX



a few here too:

http://goo.gl/S1Qa8a


You may be making a lot of phone calls soon!

[Petros]

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry to hear about your problems, sometimes the diff goes out of adjustment and the teeth break off. That price is a complete rip-off, do don't pay it. You have options here! There are several forum members, including me, that have the parts you need, for much less. the '83 has the 3.73:1 ratio front diff, I am not sure I have one in that ratio. I can check to see if any of my spare front diff assemblies are that ratio, also forum member Xirdneh likely has a spare he can sell you. And I also know of at least one or two other forum members that keep spare transmissions parts as inventory.

The last one I sold and shipped it cost about $40 to send, it is worth about $100 I would guess for a good used front diff.

I want to make sure I understand what you mean by "transaxle", are you talking about the front bell housing/diff assembly? I do not recommend removing the diff itself out of the front diff assembly, it requires knowledge of how to set the lash by adjusting the ring and pinion gear clearances with thin metal shims (and if the clearance is not set correctly you will break off teeth in short order). it is best, and very simple to just swap the front bellhousing/diff assembly as a unit.

I have to be out of town for the next 2 weeks, picking up a Tercel4wd in Texas from another forum member and driving it back to Washington state. So you might see if someone else on the forum has what you need if you are in a hurry.

sounds like you got the car at a great price despite the problems. I highly recommend you also replace the rear main seal on the crank shaft, and the pilot bearing, when you change the clutch. You can also install new CV axles if you need them while you are at it since they are already mostly removed to take out the trans.

That is a pretty major job to do for a first time repair. Sounds like you are on the right track, keep at it, and check here for advice and parts before you do anything. sometimes the factory service manual procedures are not quite correct or difficult to follow.

Post some pictues of your car when you get a chance.

Good luck.

[Tobal]

Great suggestions, thanks!!!

irowiki, I tried car-part yesterday, but didn't get near the results you did--skills.

Petros - yes the front bell housing/diff assembly is what I mean by the transaxle, and definitely would prefer not to attempt any removal of the front diff. assembly. My wife is going to kill me if I don't get this thing back on the road and out of my garage soon, so I'd like to get something soon, but will obviously take what I can get. I'm planning on all the repairs you mentioned, except the rear main. I'll add it to the list. Amen to the FSM, there's a note in the clutch section that says: "Do not drain gear oil"; still trying to figure that one out. Have a great trip to Texas!

I'm going to start working the list irowiki gave me, but if anyone has a front bell housing/diff assembly they'd like to sell me you will make my day!

[Gottolovem]

I'm rather certain i have one i will get back to you sometime this evening.
I know that i have an entire 3.7 tranny but would rather not split it apart

[Tobal]

Thanks Gottolovem, a yard in NC found one for me in Eastern OK. Got it ordered and should be set. If it turns out to be the wrong part, I'll check back with you.

[Gottolovem]

Make SURE it's out of the right year car or your troubles could get worse
And i do have one
Did the yard give you a fair price?

[Tobal]

Good, said its coming out of an 83 identical to mine, so hopefully. Any thoughts on how to verify its the right part? I don't think mine has any identifying marks. Best bet, side by side comparison? Charged me $150.

[irowiki]

If it came out of an 83, you should be set.

[Gottolovem]

You can confirm by counting the number of teeth on ring gear and pinion gear then divide the two numbers either 3.73 or 4.1
Your likley good to go if the year of the car is the same.
150 is a fair price if it includes the freight

[Tobal]

Great, thanks Gottolovem! I got the new diff Tuesday, and am hoping to get it knocked out this weekend.

[Petros]

good price, verify the correct ratio by counting the teeth. this is way too big a job to depend on year alone. a car this old could have any number of previous screw up on it, I learned that the hard way, and I have bought project Tercels that turned out to have the wrong ratio installed by the previous owner (front and rear diff ratio miss-match, always leads to very costly drive train/transmission damage). IT is worth taking the extra effort to confirm the correct ratio.

You should also confirm the rear diff as well, because the reason for the current failure may have been a rear mismatch by the previous owner. It is really important to actually know what is in the car, front and rear, rather than to assume it. I learned that the hard way too! too many back yard (and not so back yard) mechanics messing with these cars over the last 30 plus years you will never really know what is in there until you verify it yourself.

[Tobal]

Okay, good news so far! 41/11 = 3.73 on both the old and new front diff. On the rear, I guess I just need to get in there and count teeth to verify? I bought my 83 from a friend who bought it new, and I'd be surprised if she had any rear diff work done. But you're right Petros, better safe than sorry.

Anyone have experience changing the oil seals on the front diff? One of the seals on the new diff was messed up (looked like a sloppy drive shaft removal) and I thought I could just take it the rest of the way out, but I'm afraid I've mucked it up worse. Check it out

2014-05-17 22.14.20.jpg

2014-05-17 22.13.32.jpg

. It looks like the seal extends down between the case and banged up metal sleeve--does that whole sleeve come out?

[Gottolovem]

Yes you will need to pop that seal out and replace it i would do both sides form the looks of that one Go and get the new one so you are aware of the shape of the thing before you dig around in there!
If you know who the original owner is and suspect she didn't mess with the rear end.
It may be easier to put the new front diff back in, then get all 4 wheels off the ground and hand turn the front wheels ten full revolutions while counting the rear for the same ten revolutions if the ratio is different revolutions will be different. That way you will not need to take the back axle apart to confirm ratios

[dlb]

hopefully you have no scratched up the mating surface of the front diff where the CV axle seal goes. if it gets gouged, the new seal will not seat properly and it will always leak so be very careful how you go about removing the rest of that seal.

i have always used the biggest flat blade screwdriver i have. i tuck the tip behind the uppermost edge of the seal (so if i do scratch the housing, it's less likely to leak) and pry it out while being very careful to not push the tip into the soft aluminum of the diff.