Massive oil consumption (was: Valve Stem Seals)

[irowiki]

Update: After replacing the stem seals the oil burning problem is just as bad, if not worse. It is very random. Sometimes I can go 300 miles and lose a quart, other times I go 150 miles and lose a quart.

I still need to disconnect the AT kickdown and try reseating the rings as suggested, but if that fails, am I looking at replacing the piston rings?

[marlinh]

Seating rings is a specific procedure for new rings. I have never heard of reseating used rings.

[dlb]

paul, i can't remember the details of this saga and am too lazy to read through it all again. what's the compression like on the engine? if the compression #s are good, i would just continue running seafoam in the oil for extended periods and then changing the oil. i did it twice on my wife's civic, leaving it in both times for quite a while (at least a full tank of gas, maybe two or three though) and it has noticeable improved the civic's oil consumption each time. good luck, bud.

[marlinh]

Gummed up or seized oil control rings would cause oil burning. Compression numbers can still be good. Maybe another round of seafoam might help.

[irowiki]

The compression averaged 135 dry, 145 with oil added.

Seafoam in the oil, or poured in the spark plug holes? Like, a lot of seafoam in the oil and run it for a while? (the full flush style) I put about 5 ounces in before the trip and it got burned right out

So if it is burning oil rapidly even while seafoaming should I still change the oil or keep adding seafoam?

Marlene, I'm talking about this post for reseating rings:

Here is a little trick you might try. Make ten hard accelerations in high gear at the lowest RPM possible. That is a little tricky with an automatic but the increased cylinder pressure will sometimes get the rings to reseat after a head job.

With an AT, get up to high gear and then slow down to about 30 mph. Then step down on the accelerator pedal as far as you can without the transmission downshifting. When you find this sweet spot after a few tries, then as it accelerates, keep adding pressure to the gas pedal, as much as possible with out it downshifting.

Once you have it mastered, then ten runs 30-50 and see if the oil consumption goes down.

[dlb]

seafoam in the oil. i would run it with it in the oil for one or two tanks of gas, change the oil, and repeat as necessary.

those compression #s aren't good but it should still last quite a while with routine maintenance.

[marlinh]

Thanks for the reference Paul, like dlb said, too much reading. I still believe old rings can't be reseated after a head job.

[irowiki]

Head job as in head gasket?

[marlinh]

Anything to do with the head really. I believe your car just had the gasket replaced, so that would just be a re and re of the head. No other work done. Valve grind, resurfacing, etc would be a head job. It depends on what gets or needs to be done.

[Petros]

this car had just the head gasket replaced when I was stuck in Northern CA on my drive north with it. I did not have the time nor ability to do anything else to it. On that trip it was burning about one quart every 500 miles, on a very hot 1000 mile drive during july. So not sure why it burns so much now. the car had sat for almost 4 years without much running, which makes it a good candiate for multiple Seafoam treatment since that is the conditions that would cause the oil control rings to get gummed up.

A simple re-ring job can be done without pulling the engine, you pull the head and than jack the engine up and remove the pan, unbolt the connecting rods and slide the pistons out, and than install new rings. It is a big job but it can be done in a weekend if you have all the parts (about $100 worth of parts). It is worth trying the Seafoam treatment first however, and perhaps some Restore on another long trip before you take it apart.

OTOH if you take it apart to re-ring it you might have the valve faces and seats reground in a machine show while the head is off.

The compression is a bit low but that would not account for that high of oil consumption, it should more likely be consuming a quart every 800-1000 miles. Is there any place it could be leaking oil? If no leaks, than everything indicates that the oil rings are gummed up, so several Seafoam treatments are likely worth the effort to see if it helps before your rebuilt or replace the engine.

[keith]

The procedure does not work if the pistons were removed only if just the head was removed and it doesn't always work. But if you are going to replace the rings, I strongly recommend removing the engine. You can get the engine out in about a fourth the time it takes to remove the pan with the engine in place. The differential makes it all but impossible to get the pan off.

Its a lot easier to do everything on an engine stand.

[Mark]

I had the same problem on my wagon when I bought it. I assumed the cloud of smoke during acceleration was from bad valve stem seals so I replaced them and it didn't make any difference (even though the old seals were hard and brittle). Eventually, after a few oil changes (including diesel 15w40) the problem went away. I assumed the detergents in the new oil gradually cleaned out the carbon in the rings and they started working again.

[keith]

Good suggestion Mark, diesel oil has a lot more detergent that car oil so it is great for cleaning out an engine. 15w40 is a good choice for older engines, 5w40 synthetic diesel for newer engines. A quart of ATF like Dexron III helps too but it should not be added until about 4-500 miles before the next oil change.

[irowiki]

So not sure why it burns so much now.

It might be going down, it did a quart in 350 miles at one point in our trip, which is a slight improvement! I notice thicker oil doesn't seem to burn out as fast.

It is worth trying the Seafoam treatment first however, and perhaps some Restore on another long trip before you take it apart.

I've tried No Smoke, and Restore after the stem seals were replaced, they both got burned out just as fast.

Is there any place it could be leaking oil?

There are no drips under the car at all when she is stopped. So unless it magically drips only when the car is moving, I can't see any leaks.

There was ATF leaking but that fixed itself.

If no leaks, than everything indicates that the oil rings are gummed up, so several Seafoam treatments are likely worth the effort to see if it helps before your rebuilt or replace the engine.

I took the spark plugs out and am soaking the pistons in ATF/Seafoam, will also put seafoam down the oil before I change it. Might even try some ATF in the oil as was suggested.

I also bought a nice jug of diesel 10w-40 and will try that the next oil change.

[Mark]

One of the things I did when I was trying to figure out where my oil burning was coming from (before the oil changes cleaned out the rings) was install an oil catch can between the PCV valve and the intake. I was thinking that oil might be being sucked along with the blow-by gases into the intake, burning and causing smoke. The catch can was made from a small air compressor filter housing so it only holds a few cc's of oil. It takes about a month or so of normal driving to fill it. I figured this rate of oil being sucked into the intake probably wasn't causing the smoking problems, but I left the catch can in anyways figuring it wouldn't hurt. One thing I noticed is that when driving very fast (for me), about 110-120 km/hr (70mph), the catch can filled up in only a few hours of driving. Usually I only drive less than 90 km/hr (55mph) even on the highway.