Front axle pops out - return the lemon or fix it?

[amy c]

Just bought my first Tercel 4WD, with help from reading lots and lots of posts here about what to look for. Unfortunately, a couple days in and having some axle issues...the front left axle has popped out 2x over several months and only a few 100 miles, with a very worn spindle each time. I'd love a professional opinion as to whether I should spend the $ for repairs, or return the car to the seller (which he has very graciously offered to return my $1800 in full). (Forgive my incorrect usage of any car terms below--I'm a novice.) Thanks for any advice!!!

The seller replaced the front left axle (see notes below), within the last few months, as it had popped out and the splines were worn down. Just a few days after I purchased the vehicle (1987 Tercel SR5 4wd 150K), I was in reverse coming out of the driveway and lost power to the front wheels. My mechanic found the same front left axle had popped out, and the splines again were worn down. There were some funny issues with finding the right spindle nut (the broken one was a 20mm, but the new one a 19mm to fit the new axle), but that may not have anything to do with the fit of the axle to the transmission/differential end.

The seller's response to my email about what to think of this:
"I replaced the axle on the front left because it had popped out of the transmission/differential. There is a snap ring on the end of the splined shaft that fits in a small groove and that is what keeps the axle in place. when i replaced that axle the snap ring had failed and damaged some of the splines so I bought a new OEM axle from the local CarQuest that is supposed to be for that car. I removed the differential cover and cleaned out all of the metal shavings from the old axle before I installed the new one. The new axle went in like it should and I made sure to seat it all the way in. I test drove the car for several hundred miles to make sure it wouldn't happen again but apparently I didn't drive it enough.
I believe the spindle nut you are talking about is on the outboard end of the axle where it goes through the hub. If the external measurement of the threaded end of the axle is bigger on one axle over the other than but the splines are of the same dimensions than that may be a variation of different axles coming from different manufacturers but meant for the same application. I cannot see how this would affect the other end of the axle to cause it to pop out of the transmission.

My fear is that the mechanic that put the first axle in, me and your mechanic have all just replaced the axle without addressing the real problem. Which I can see as being one of two things.
A. something in the suspension/steering of the front left wheel is worn to the extent that upon a hard turn in reverse there is enough outward force on the axle to pop it out.
B. the internal splines in the transmission are damaged enough so that they no longer have the holding strength on the axle as they should.
To test A I would look first look at the bushings on the inboard end of the lower control arm to test B would involve removing parts of the differential which may or may not be able to be done with the transmission in the car."


Since I don't fully understand the severity of the axle popping out again, or the likelihood of that happening based on this info....I'm not sure whether I should spend the money to get a mechanic to figure out the root of the problem (removing the transmission, ugh!), or just return the car for a refund. I'm not car-savvy, so repairs like these have to go through a local mechanic. Any opinions out there?

- Thanks, Amy
Carbondale, CO

[dlb]

welcome, amy. unless the control arm is flopping around in the frame of the vehicle (which i think is unlikely because it would cause all sorts of other problems), i agree with the seller's 'B' diagnosis. for $1800, i think it's too big of a problem to bother fixing. the car will likely need a new used diff or entire transmission and that's expensive to have done at a shop, and a pain to do at home. unless the seller is willing to refund you at least $1000 which you could put towards repairs AND you have a mechanic you know you can trust, i would take up the seller's offer and return the car for a full refund.

[irowiki]

Hey Amy!

My family hails from Olathe! I'm down in Farmington, NM, south of Durango.

There's a good condition T4 down in Santa Fe you might be interested in if you return yours.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9711

[marlinh]

My suspicion is also the trans. The axle can flex in and out enough with suspension movement that it should never pop out of the trans. Get your money back if you can, or enough of a refund to cover the cost of the repair. The seller will have to do this to resell it in good conscience, so you may be in luck. What is the condition of the rest of the car? Mint? If not just return it and look for another.

[Petros]

Welcome to the Forum Amy,

too bad you are having this trouble, the drive train when in good condition is very reliable and if this can be fixed properly it should not give you any more trouble.

It is possible that he bought reconditioned axles rather than new ones. the reconditions ones I have seen are almost all junk, the splines can be worn and sloppy, there is no way to repair them on a used axle and the company that does the reconditioning does not seem to picky about the condition of the splines that they reuse. So it is possible that is is just a bad replacement axle. Only buy new replacement axles, the reconditions ones are not reliable (the cost is about the same, so no reason to use questionable parts).

More likely however is that when the first axle failed (which was likely a junk re-manufactured one), it did damage to the internal spline in the front differential. So that replacing a new axle into a damaged differential assembly might not hold it in properly. Even if you can find a brand of axle with a strong enough spring clip to hold it in, likely the axle stub will have too much free play in the damage splines. This will further damage the remaining diff splines, and the good ones on the new axle, and almost certain do damage the axle seal so it will leak transmission oil everywhere. If this has already happens than there is a small risk that the transmissions gears my have suffered damage from not being lubricated properly.

The thing to do would be pull the damage front axle out, and the diff front cover. With a flashlight the diff splines need to be carefully inspected for damage. If they are not damaged, particularly the groove at the back of the spline sleeve, than likely a new axle and axle seal is all it will need. I would also have both the diff and the trans flushed out with ATF or a strong solvent to make sure all of the metal particles are removed.

If the diff spline and snap ring groove are damaged than the front diff assembly should be replaced. If that is the case than the whole transmission has to be removed and the front housing has to be removed from the main gear box. Usually finding a used front diff assembly from a wrecking yard is a good bet since the diff is usually pretty durable. At that point it is a fairly simple unbolt and bolt up swap (no need to actually remove the differential itself, which i would advise against because of very sensitive clearance requirements between the ring and pinion gears, just replace the whole front assembly as a unit). This is likely a $1000 job, not including the parts. While the trans is out you might also have the clutch and rear main seal inspected and replaced since you have it all apart.

If you go with replacement front diff be sure the mechanic verifies you have correct ring and pinion ratio for your car. the '83-84 manual trans Tercel4wd has a different ratio than the '85-88. And the automatic and non-4wd front diff has different ratio as well, even though it appear the front housing is identical.

If the car is in otherwise good condition, see if you can get the seller to pay for, or share the cost of the repair. Otherwise you might take him up on the refund.

[amy c]

Thanks so much for all the feedback! It's pretty amazing to join a community of strangers who will happily help you out with questions like this. The car is certainly not in mint condition, with a mashed front left bumper (same side as the bum axle, is that a coincidence?). Sounds like a trip back up to Steamboat is my best bet to return this, thank goodness for kind honest sellers who will give refunds! Dang! I was loving having a tercel!

[irowiki]

You will find another!