permatex 2 form a gasket sealant question

[scouttster]

I installed a tranny pan this morning and the stuff doesn't seem to be tacking up.. The TDS sheet on the permatex web sites says #2 is the slow cure.. It gives no time for cure.. This stuff was in a hot shed all summer and I'm wondering if its no-good.. Does this stuff take awhile? Anyone? Thanks

[dlb]

all the permatex liquid gasket stuff i have used says to apply it, finger tighten all nuts and bolts, let it sit for an hour, then snug them up another 1/2 turn or so. then it takes 24 hrs to cure so i don't add any oil or coolant until that 24 hrs has passed. that might be overly cautious but i don't want to do the job a second time. has always worked well for me, the only part i do slightly differently is that i sometimes do the nuts and bolts up a full turn rather than a 1/2. just depends on when it starts to feel 'right' to me.

[scouttster]

I did just that.. I haven't run those bolts home yet.. I gave them a 3/4 to full turn, just shy of snug. I figured after 3 or 4 hours it would be tacking up and it doesn't seem to be.. I'm thinking the stuff maybe went bad, by being in that hot shed all summer.. But, then again - it just donned on me that the stuff is high temp sealant.. I guess, I give it the full 24 hours and see what happens.

Like everything else, tranny fluid is getting pricey. I am re-using what I have - it only has a couple 100 miles on it.. But, I am running it through a coffee filter to catch out any fines that might be in there.. I also installed 4 large earth magnets in the pan to grab fines..

[dlb]

your liquid gasket is probably fine, just give it the full time to cure.

if your ATF is still pretty fresh, i would say it's ok to use. just don't reuse it if it's due for a change, or purple rather than pink. like engine oil, ATF loses its ability to adequately lubricate due to constantly being heated up and cooled off, so it needs to be replaced regularly. manual transmissions don't require such frequent oil changes because the oil only warms slightly.

[c_j]

I installed a tranny pan this morning and the stuff doesn't seem to be tacking up.. The TDS sheet on the permatex web sites says #2 is the slow cure.. It gives no time for cure.. This stuff was in a hot shed all summer and I'm wondering if its no-good.. Does this stuff take awhile? Anyone? Thanks

Permatex #1 and #2 are (what I believe to be) the original products from that company. e.g. #14 is aviation form-a-gasket, #66 is clear silicone, #133 is anti-seize. The numbers go up as time goes on (to a point - they don't seem to be incrementing their numbers for each new product anymore), so you're dealing with an old technology product.

You can see #1 and #2 on the bottom shelf, left of center in this 1937 advertisement:

1937_permatex_advertisement.JPG

Anyhow, #1 is the hard-setting product, and #2 is the non-hardening product. As you say, #2 is slow cure, and although I've never used it, I would not expect it to cure like a silicone or anaerobic does, but maybe thicken a bit.

permatex_1_and_2.jpg

[scouttster]

CJ, thanks for shedding some light on this. I was expecting it to tack up like #1 RTV ( orange ) Its about 8 hours later now and its tacky but its not hardened up like silicone or the #1 that I have used in the past.. This is what I was expecting.. I wish I had known this stuff to act this way.. You think its ok to use? I don't want pieces becoming un-done and getting caught up in the tranny fluid.. Possibly getting lodged in passages.. OH Crap!

[c_j]

...You think its ok to use? I don't want pieces becoming un-done and getting caught up in the tranny fluid.. Possibly getting lodged in passages..

Let the filter worry about any bits that come off inside:

BA0440185-1.jpg

That is unless you put it on super thick.

[Petros]

I have always understood that #2 was not supposed to harden, ever. It becomes tacky, but was supposed to stay pliable. An important reason not to over tighten it.

[keith]

Did you use a new gasket or were you trying to salvage an old gasket. A new gasket should go on dry, no sealant at all.

[scouttster]

yes, I used a new gasket, the #2 along with a new new tranny pan.. Last year, I put the old pan on with a new gasket, and it leaked like a sieve and that's why I was dead-set on using this permatex gasket #2 stuff.. I have since learned, something - last night I did a look-up as to why tranny pans leak and most people said it is uaually because someone at sometime overtightened the pan and dimpled all the holes and that's what usually causes leaking.. Sure enough, I looked and all the holes in the old pan and they were all dimpled. Oh well, whats done is done and a new pan, with new gasket, and #2 is on and tightened down.. I also learned that the #2 isn't going to hurt anything by having it on there and its not leaking anymore as of right now.. Knowing what I know, now - I would have just used the pan and the gasket as you suggested. ( No, I'm not going to clean all the pliable gasket material off and start over - whats done is done )

By the way, its a C4 tranny were talking about on my Ford kit car.. Hope its ok, to inquire about non-tercel related stuff? You guys seem to know lots of stuff and I appreciate the answers and knowledge that's dished out here. Great forum and awesome group of guys on here!!

[dlb]

i have also made the mistake of using silicone gasket stuff in addition to a cork gasket, but it still never leaked. now i usually forgo any cork gaskets and just use silicone. i did this on the engine oil pan of my 4wd corolla wagon a few months ago and it worked well.

[Petros]

I have seen the same problem on oil pan gaskets on engines. the old cork gaskets are easy to over tighten and damage, than it leaks like seive. I helped a friend with his toyota truck (22E engine), it was leaking all over, he had some low budget shop "rebuild" the engine a few years before, it was all a mess, it had almost 100k miles on the rebuild (he has a carpent cleaning buisness and drives 45k miles a year on it!). Anyway when I pulled the pan off the cork gasket was cut down the middle (through the bolt holes), half was inside the sump, the other was just hanging on the outside. I hammered the pan flat on an anvil and took a large file to even it up. I used silicone sealant only on it, it did not leak again. I think most car manufacturers have gone to sealant only on the pan.

Another thing I have done was to use the high tack sealant on one side of the gasket (to hold it in place) after and overnight cure, and than use anti-seise on the other side. this allows you to cleanly pull off the gasket without damage and it stays in place on one side, so it will not shift when tightening it down. If the gasket is not damage it can be reused, saves time if you expect to be pulling the engine apart again. We did this on all the race engines since they would get torn down after every race, saved a lot of time cleaning off old gaskets.

[scouttster]

Good call, petros.. I tried hammering an oil pan flat many years ago and made dog doo doo out of it.. It seems you have to have a good eye for seeing the slightest wave in the steel or the slightest imperfection in the flatness of the flange part of the pan.. I couldn't get it right - it leaked, not that bad.. But, I tried and it still leaked. I lived with the leak. This is before I knew about using any sort of form a gasket goop on it.. I just used a new plain cork gasket and the existing oil pan as I remember. I probably over-tightened it too..