Tercel dies when warming up first time of the day

[wildbill99junk]

This is an odd problem, if I let my tercel warm up in the driveway with the choke on it's fine. BUT if I take off I can go to the little store down the way not too far after that it will mysteriously die and not start (it does crank) until it cools all the way off. then it's ok for the rest of the day . it does this every day and it's getting annoying. It has gas from the accelerator pump and the plug fires (unsure if it's firing right though) sometimes it fires out the carb when it's in this condition. wondering if anyone has battled this problem before, I am a auto tech by day but I'll be damned if I cannot figure this problem out. Sometimes it dies in traffic (which sucks) sometimes it just misses really bad for a sec if I got my foot on the gas I can prevent it from dying (like goin down the highway) unfortunately everyone drives really slow in the morning and my way is full of red lights so I usually wind up dead waiting for it to cool off every day or I just get up earlier to warm my car even if it is 60 or 70 degrees outside. Beyond this issue it runs great would probably make it all the way to California provided I lt it warm up in the driveway first.

[Petros]

welcome to the forum wildbill!

It could be your fast idle is set too low, there is a separate adjustment for it on the throttle bellcrank. It could also be the chock is opening too early, there is timing test for the choke in the FSM (you can down load it from this site). There are several things that could also casue it to run too lean, one is a vacuum leak, which I am sure you know how to find, but the HAC (high altitude compensator) or the mixture control thing (forgots its name, on the right fender next to the coolant overflow tank) could be leaking making it too leak. If the FSM there are good descriptions of the various systems on the carb/emission control, look for the systems that are temperature activated particularly for cold operation, and than do the test for each one. It sounds like it might be too lean until it warms up.

It will be something easy to fix, the problem is finding it. So you have to work your way thorough the each of the systems that could cause that kind of behavior.

Good luck!

where are you located?

[Mark]

I'm not sure I understand when the problem is. Do you mean that when you warm it up by idling it in the driveway it drives fine, but if you warm it up by driving it it dies? I would try using some carb cleaner on the carb linkages and then some silicone spray. If it wasn't for the fact that sometimes it drives fine when it's warm (depending on how you warm it up), I would suspect a vacuum leak in the diaphragm of a temperature-controlled vacuum component. The accelerator pump gets vacuum when it's cold and the EGR modulator valve gets vacuum when it's warm. It shouldn't matter how you warm it up for that to be a problem though. I'd be surprised if a vacuum leak caused the car to not start at all.

[dlb]

ditto on petros and mark's responses. also check the AAP. if it is ruptured, the carb may not get enough fuel while it is still cold but will often run fine with no symptoms once warm.

download the factory service manual here and go to page 90 to read up on the emission control stuff. the AAP and choke are covered in there. you can test the choke by watching it as the carb warms up, but you can also test it for resistance. i believe it should be 11-13 ohms but take a look at the FSM. here's the link to it.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8103

[wildbill99junk]

yea see I start in the morning and the choke is on, gotta give it a couple pumps of gas to sorta clean it out (normal) but then the choke is on and it's sitting on the fast idle cam idling @ about 1500-1800 at this time walk away..... until the fan comes on. then it won't do it. BUT .... if I leave bfore the fan comes on or shut it off I gotta wait for the temp gague to go ALL THE WAY DOWN then it'll start again. This is the only time it'll do it. It's fine for the rest of the day (regardless of temp) sometimes when it's cool or rainy it might do it again most of the time it'll just miss out real bad for a sec (skips a beat so to speak) and doesn't die. At first I thought it was an air bubble in the cooling system due to my radiator had a crack in the top but I replaced the radiator and the problem persists. perhaps I still have a leak that doesnt allow it to belch properly not sure. am starting to lean twards ignition, last failure I pulled a plug to watch the fire seemed it sparked once real good and not sure how well it fired after that perhaps it was firing sorta intermittently i dont know (gotta wait till tomorrow morning to try again!)

The choke stays on I gotta go shut it off when the fan comes on it normally idles at about 800rpm you can tell it's gonna do it cus when this occurs it'll idle slightly lower like about 700rpm (keep your foot in it cuz it's gonna die) I cannot imagine a vacum leak could cause it to stumble like this & die usually vacum leaks cause high idle speeds however a vacum leak could cause it not to start. so I don't know if I'm convinced vacum is the issue. The carb float level is perfect and you can work the accelerator pump and flood the engine if you like. So I think the carb is fine. I could use a tvsv valve I got a broken hose nipple but its always been that way so I dunno. sometimes I pull some vacum lines and it starts! But i try to pull that line again and it doesnt work (it just cooled off enough to start) so you can see why this issue is so frustrating.

mostly if you can keep it above 1300-1500 rpm it'll go past it. somtimes red lights wont let you do that, I've even gotten good at driving with 3 feet allbeit you don't think this is possable it is! wonder if battery voltage affects the distributor I got a new alternator but my battery in better than 5 years old the fan will lug my engine down somtimes. yea well anyway still unsure

[Petros]

I have seen a weak spark cause similar behavior; revs okay, but once warm when idle gets below about 1100 it dies out. it was a bad distributor.

[Mark]

I sort of get it. By sitting in the driveway warming up, you leave it on fast idle the whole time. But when you push the gas pedal to leave it kicks down the fast idle and it drops to the normal rpm and ends up dying. So the dying issue is only at low rpm? I'm leaning more towards a vacuum leak now. It could definitely cause a rough idle and is more noticeable the lower the rpms. When I've had vacuum leaks in diaphragms, the engine would die at idle unless I put my foot on the gas to keep the rpms up. I'd still lube all the linkages if it hasn't been done in a while. A rough idle or stall is one of those pains to diagnose: Vacuum leak, fuel, spark, timing, compression, etc.....

[Mark]

Also you mentioned the choke stays on (closed?) even when the engine is warm (fan comes on), and you have to shut it off. How do you shut off the choke?
An easy way to check battery voltage or alternator output is to use the windshield wipers or turn signals. If they are moving/clicking at the normal speed, there should be plenty of voltage for the distributor. If there wasn't enough voltage or current to drive the car (spark), it wouldn't be able to turn over the engine either.

[dlb]

I could use a tvsv valve I got a broken hose nipple but its always been that way so I dunno.

before you replace anything that may or may not be faulty, you really need to replace your tvsv and to route all the vacuum lines properly, and also to confirm that each of the emission components is actually working. all the seemingly useless things—choke opener, choke breaker, throttle positioner, etc—all play vital roles, so if you have a broken or faulty TVSV that is not supplying vacuum to one or more components, it's a no-brainer that you will have issues. i personally had a terc recently that would start and idle fine for just a few seconds before it started to rev really low and sometimes stall. it wound up being that one of the two diaphragms in the choke breaker was ruptured. replaced it and the thing ran fine after that.

i think TVSVs are still available from toyota, and if not, there's a member here named 4doorvip who had a few that he found new and was selling. i got one from him, put it in my project car, and it worked great.

[wildbill99junk]

well anyways yea I think I'll change tvsv if i can get one the thing is I could care less if it dies every once in a while problem is that it WONT START AGAIN!!!! iF YOU ARE AT THE RED LIGHT YOU GOTTA PUSH THE THING INTO A PARKING LOT AND WAIT FOR IT TO START AGAIN, REALLY EFFING ANNOYING!!!

there was once I had it screwed up & got it to start by bumping the starter, like it wouldnt fire whilst the starter was turning?!?! or maybe it just cooled enough to start

[wildbill99junk]

see lately I been doing the warm up thing, IT DOESNT DIE IF I DO THIS. and furthermore will be good for the whole day. its only the first warm up (like there is a bubble in the cooling system) the choke works perfectly it goes off by itself, but stays on the fast idle cam until I push the gas once. it takes about 10 or 15 minutes to warm up at 1800rpm and like I said it will be fine for the whole day if I do this, just if I'm late, need to go, don't have time to warm up, PLAN ON GETTING STRANDED CUZ IT'S GONNA DIE.

[xirdneh]

i'm going to throw my two cents in
those tercel carbs do some weird things
i had one that would die and could not be restarted unless rolled down a very long hill and compression started
then it might go for days before doing it again
i suspected flooding cause looking down the carb throat there was too much gas sitting down there
replacing carb fixed it
another had a large drop of water in the primary part of carb when i took it apart
may have been able to solve that with alcohol gas treatment but did not know till carb was apart
i always recommend checking inside of distributor to see if both contact plungers go in and out with out getting stuck
the spring behind plunger can go bad causing carb like problems
i keep some salvaged and re-built carbs handy and swap carbs to fix tough problems
just having a known good carb rules out carb problems

[wildbill99junk]

UPDATE!!!!!! PROBLEM SOLVED!!!! THERMOSTATIC VACCUM SWITCHING VALVE $110 FROM TOYOTA HASNT DONE IT AGAIN!!!! YEEE HAAAA!!!!! THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP ALSO CHANGED THE LITTLE DIAPHRAM IN THE CARB DIDNT HELP A BIT BUT THE OLD ONE WAS HARD MADE A MINOR IMPROVEMENT FOR THE WAY IT RUNS DIDNT DO ANYTHING FOR MY PROBLEM THOUGH

[Petros]

Good job, way to go! I am surprised the TVSV would cause it to act this way. I would guess that half of the cars out there with the old TVSV are not functioning properly anyway, I have never head of it causing a stall out. Perhaps yours was leaking too?

[toyomonkey611]

bad AAP with a carb that needs rebuilt anyway can cause gritty fuel to get into your vacuum lines and make the TVSV get internally stuck. also fudges up other vacuum items. a broken open vacuum connection can also suck in dust or dirt and problems can persist after the vacuum leak is repaired. my battery is new but alternator is original, when i turn my headlights on my rpm drops by 200. when my engine is cold and idling, the dying clutch drops rpm by 200 to 400, this goes away when warmed up, but i can hold the pedal down to raise the rpm. if i try to warm up my car with the headlights on, it stalls when the choke opens. also replacing a bad belt pulley helped it idle better. r. i have an aisin clutch kit, and i need to replace that alternator soon