Swapping to a manual rack from power steering

[SynthDesign]

This is out of an AL21 2WD 4 door wagon

IMG_0001.JPG

The only difference is the rack mounts. I measured numerous times.

IMG_0004.JPG

Tercel 4WDs and AW11 MR2s use the same front ball joints. Toyota has different #s but they are identical.

The tercel Manual rack is VERY close to the AE86 manual rack. 82 to 88 Tercel,83 to 87 Corolla and 78 to 83Starlets use about the same inner tierods on the manual rack. There's suble difference but they are near identical length, thread and pitchable angle.

The AW11 MR2 rack is very close to the Manual Tercel but shorter. The rack mounting bar diameter and fixture mounting measurements are identical to an AW11 MR2 rack. The difference is where they split to allow installation. I'm thinkin I can run my AW11 MR2 Prothane mounts.

IMG_0003.JPG

Top T4WD power, Middle Tercel Manual, Bottom AW11 MR2

The Tercel I got the cross member and rack from didn't have an adjustable steering column so I still need a u-joint. I think the MR2 unit may work.

[Petros]

interesting find. You want to make sure the length of each of the part is the same, distance between the joints, and rod ends, or you could affect steering geometry. It could mean bump steer which would make it behave badly at speed.

Are the urethane rack mounts very costly? at least it appears the MR2 mounting rubber can be used for the Tercel.

[SynthDesign]

The AW11 urethane rack mounts are super cheap. Under $15 pretty much any where.

http://www.twosrus.com/catalog/product_ ... cts_id=150
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PTP-18-702/

The inner tie rod ends all measure the same. Even a few parts suppliers reference the corolla, tercel and starlet compatibility for manual racks.

[Petros]

I might just have to get a set of the urethane rack mounts for mine than. Let us know what you find when you fit the urethane mounts to the tercel rack.

According to Tom in another thread the rack mounts are the same for power and manual racks. The power steering is so much larger dia I assumed the rack mounts would be different, but I guess not. If these are all interchangeable, than is there a quick ratio rack that would fit in the Tercel?

Though I really like the power steering (I have owned both) especially in parking lots and in tight places, I can see how the manual rack will give more clearance for the header with the 4age swap. Is that why you are going manual rack?

[ARCHINSTL]

According to Tom in another thread the rack mounts are the same for power and manual racks. The power steering is so much larger dia I assumed the rack mounts would be different, but I guess not.

Interesting - I did not know they were of a different size.
However, to be sure, I just now checked the EPC and while there is an obvious difference in the rack "tube," the bushing/insulator/grommet numbers are the same for PS and MS. This corresponds to what I'd posted back in 2006 (info from Butler).
Go figure...
Tom M.

[dlb]

i'm considering swapping from a power steering to a manual steering rack to the current project terc. my questions are:

1) can i do it without dropping the cross member or raising the engine?
2) are the x-members specific to power and manual steering, making them necessary to swap as well?
3) do i need to change the shaft and u-joint that go from the firewall to the steering rack?
4) if yes to changing the shaft and u-joint, how is that done?

[Mark]

I think in the Toyota parts diagrams I could only find one crossmember diagram:

crossmember.jpg

I assume that means they are the same for manual or power steering.
I didn't have to remove the crossmember to remove the steering rack. Here are some steering parts breakdowns for an '84 standard wagon:
Power steering:

power steering 1.jpg

Manual steering:

manual steering1.jpg

I think the steering rods from the steering wheel are the same. The parts breakdown didn't specify between manual and power steering rods:

steering shaft1.jpg

steering shaft2.jpg

[Mark]

I also noticed that it shows that the two "supports" (one of which you wanted) are actually different. At least they have different part numbers. I took out the passenger side and you want the driver's side I think. It's only 2 bolts so I'll take that one out as well.

[marlinh]

I just changed from manual steering to power. I happened to have the engine out so it was an easy swap. I didn't need to change the cross member. The power steering rack has a larger diameter hold down bracket. You can sneak the rack out without raising the engine or dropping the cross member. What I did find was that the steering column had to be changed because they are different lengths. The u joints are the same for both unless you are working on an 83 and maybe 84. Forum member JustPhil encountered that problem when he was searching for a u joint. If you change steering columns, I also found that the ignition tumblers don't swap over.

Why are you removing the power steering?

[dlb]

marlinh, what do you mean when you say the steering column had to be changed? do you mean the plastic trim or all the stuff underneath it as well?

i was thinking of swapping to manual steering in my new project car because all the inner and outer tie rods need to be replaced, mark has a complete manual steering set available, and i prefer manual steering--less crap in the engine bay, simpler system, less extra drag on the feeble 62 hp engine, and i barely notice any difference in feel between the two. so i thought since all the tie rods need replacement, it might be worth it to swap it over but i think i've been talked out of it. it will be easier to just replace the tie rods. good to know for future reference, though.

[marlinh]

The shaft that comes through the firewall and attaches to the u joint is all one piece with the steering column. The steering column is the whole assembly, from steering wheel to the u joint. If you aren't putting in a tilt steering column, my donor car had power steering but wasn't an SR5, you can reuse the plastic covers of the original column. There's probably someone out there who has tried to cut the shaft to fit the other rack but I didn't want to do that. At the firewall there is another joint that allows the shaft in the engine bay to angle to the rack. I didn't take it apart to look at it. It might be possible to change that shaft, but pulling out the column was so easy I went that route.

[Petros]

I have removed steering racks without removing the engine or cross member, it is a tight but it can be wiggled out. At worst you can loosen the front engine mounts and jack the engine up an inch or so without removing anything else.

Everything will swap over, but I think was Marlinh is refering to is the short part of the steering shaft from the pinion input spline shaft on the rack assembly to the next u-joint on the steering shaft. On the '83-84 you just change out this lower section, it has a u-joint and short section of shaft, they are about an inch different length, the upper end is just a spline shaft that slides out. On the '85 and newer it is a different arrangement with a separate u-joint with spline fittings on both sides of the u-joint. I am not sure if you have to change the whole steering column or not, I would not think so but I am not as familiar with the '85 and newer steering columns with tilt feature.

The power rack is somewhat larger at the input spline, so the lower end of the steering shaft has to be a different length for the power or manual steering. Everything should bolt in fine, you just need all the correct parts.

[Mark]

If there's a problem with the power steering anyway (I don't know what the fluid status on yours is), I wonder if you could just take the belt off the pump, drain the fluid and then have a manual rack without actually replacing anything. Some issues I could see running this without fluid are wear or drying-out of the seals in the directional control valves and the "piston" ring-thing on the rack. If this works, an advanatage could be that the next owner could hook up the system again without much trouble if they wanted power steering.

[dlb]

i wish it were so easy but manual and power steering racks have different gearings (i'm not sure if that's the right terminology) which make the manual racks easy to turn just as they are and power racks a bear to turn without assistance from the pump. colin has got relatively new inner and outer tie rod ends from his last terc so i'm just going to buy those off him. thanks for the rack though mark, i will hang on to it for now and will gladly bring it back to you if you want it for anything.

[marlinh]

Just for interest sake, I took apart the cover on the steering column to see what is there. It has a u joint that looks identical to the sliding sleeve that attaches to the rack. It is in pristine, rust free condition. Maybe, if someone was sending a car to get crushed they could save this u joint to press into the splined shaft since those u joints are unavailable new.