Front Wheel Play ( Left to Right ) VIDEO UPDATE!

[scouttster]

Hello All-
I went to Wal-Mart ( Florida ) yesterday to have the cheapo Douglas tires balanced and rotated after my 3K trip up to the northeast and back. The mechanic on shift refused to touch the vehicle on account of the wheel play. On the lift, we could grab the tire left and right side and toggle it back and fourth. I noticed the strut would move as well.. He said it was the struts. When grabbed top and bottom and try to toggle, no play - whereas I had just replaced the bearings March / 2013 Bearings are fine... So, my question - what is this issue? Strut issue?

I did notice on my road trip on the highway when I would go into a slight turn - I would get this wheel flutter.. Like a small quiver in the wheel..

For the record, the struts are toast. They were toast when I bought the car in 2009..

Thank you
UPLOADING VIDEO NOW - STANDBY

[dlb]

from what you describe, i don't think the problem is the struts. generally speaking, bad strut inserts will result in mushy, poor handling, worn out springs will result in sagging, and bad strut mounts will result in play at the top of the strut but not down at the wheel hub. none of those would cause play down where you describe it.

but more details, please: when you say there is side to side play, are you pushing and pulling the entire wheel in and out, or are you pushing and pulling the front and back of the wheel as if you're mimicking turning? if it's the whole wheel and you know the bearings are good, i would guess it's ball joints. if the play occurs when mimicking turning, i would guess inner and/or outer tie rods. if you know you need new struts and strut mounts, it would be a good idea to do all of it at the same time. while you're at it, have you checked the sway bar end bushings and collars? those are probably the first job i do on any terc i get.

[scouttster]

Thanks for the reply.. Yes, back and fourth play as in the motion of turning. The play I describe is in the turning of the wheel on the horizontal plane. You can literally squat in front of the tire and grab with left hand ( left side of tire ) and right hand ( right side of tire ) and toggle the wheel like 4 inches left to right or in and out in a turning motion. ( when jacked up off ground ) I personally thought it was supposed to do that for a couple of inches? I'm just not sure what needs replace.. Struts? I mean, I know the struts are toast, but Florida is pretty flat and I have been getting away with these old ones.. Sway bar end bushings and collars, look fine.. Still tight and the rubber mounts are in good shape.. Tie-rods, I'm not sure what they control? Maybe, its those? Could you elaborate further?
Thank you

[marlinh]

Whatever you are describing sounds extremely dangerous. Can you get someone else to toggle the wheel for you while you look for where the movement is coming from? When the wheel bearings were done, was the axle nut torqued to approx 150 ft lbs? If you have side to side movement of the tire and no movement when you grab it from top to bottom it usually indicates tie rods. The strut will turn with the play. Each side has two tie rods, an inner and outer. The inner is hidden by a long accordian type of boot. If you put your hand over the boot close to the center cross member you will feel the movement. The outer tie rod attaches close to the tire and you can hold it with you hand and feel that play too. While someone wiggles the tire side to side, pull on the whole tie rod assembly (towards you should work) and see if the person pulling on the tire feels the slack lessen. I would not drive this car until you figure out the problem. Four inches of movement is dangerous. There is definitely something wrong!

[scouttster]

The wheel is connected to the hub and steering knuckle which is in turn connected to the strut.. The whole wheel, hub, knuckle and strut turns.

[Mark]

How hard are you trying to turn the wheel? I had a shop try and trick me into getting new tie-rods by very forcibly moving the wheel back and forth. It moved a couple of inches, but I could see the steering wheel moving too (the wheels are linked to the steering wheel and steering assembly by the tie rods). My tie rods were only a month old at the time so I knew it wasn't them. If the tie-rod ends are worn, it shouldn't take much force to wiggle the wheel back and forth. If the steering wheel moves, you're applying too much force (and then the steering wheel is supposed to move). I'm not sure if this would be the case with power steering.

[dlb]

holy crap, that's a lot of play. i don't think you would even be able to drive it if that were the case so the steering must not be locked. do the same test but take the key out of the ignition and lock the steering wheel, or even better, do this but also have someone in the car holding the wheel—even when the steering is locked, the steering wheel will still be able to turn a small amount. do not get this confused with tie rod play.

the only way you can inspect the ends of the sway bar and the metal collar that sits on it is to actually remove the sway bar. if you haven't done that, you absolutely should. the design on these cars is such that moisture gets trapped in there and causes both the collar and the ends of the bar to rust and disintegrate. a forum member here had his sway bar snap while driving, and narrowly avoided a catastrophic accident so i strongly encourage you to check yours out. i even posted a guide on here on how to do them:

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7481

[Petros]

Presuming there is actually suspection parts worn, and the steering wheel is not moving when you do this: If you can not get any movement when you try to wiggle the wheel from the top and bottom, that means it is not the strut, upper mount or ball joint or bearings. If it wiggles side to side (as in the turning motion) than it has to be either the tire rod ends or the steering rack. You need to isolate what is causing the movement and just replace it. the outer tie-rod end is easy, not too costly, the inner tie-rod end is also not too costly, but more work. IF the steering rack is worn that is a much beigger job to replace it, you can either buy a good used one from a wrecking yard or buy a re-manufactured one. It can be replaced without lifting the engine, you unbolt everything and wiggle it out from its mounts.

I test that kind of movemovement by standing next to the front fender, reach in through the windown and wiggle the steering wheel, and have the other hand on the front wheel, and feel how much I can move the steering wheel without feeling any movement in the tire. I should be very small, less than an inch on the steering wheel. You might get another opinion from another shop too.

good luck

[scouttster]

Here is the video of what I was describing... What could this be?

[scouttster]

This video take?

http://s149.photobucket.com/user/scoutt ... 6.mp4.html

[dlb]

unless something is wrong on my end, it looks like those are the same vid, scouttster.

that's a TON of play, do not drive it like that. unfortunately, the video is not steady enough and does not focus on the tie rod joints enough for me to be able to give you any more advice than i already have. it's easy to determine where the play is though. just lie under the car while you push the wheel in and out and look at the where the outer tie rod connects to the wheel hub. if the hub moves but the outer tie rod does not, your outer tie rod is toast. then remove the rubber accordion boot from the inner end of the inner tie rod and pull it out so you can see the joint of the inner tie rod. push the wheel in and out again. if the outer part of the inner tie rod joint moves while the inner part does not, the inner tie rod is also toast.

if you have this on both sides though, i would also check the rack and make sure it is still snugly bolted to the crossmember. i wonder if some bolts have come loose, allowing the whole rack to slide back and forth a bit. i've never seen so much play from just a bad tie rod.

[Petros]

looks to me like a worn out tie-rod end. could be inner or outter. If you have it on both sides (that is left and right wheels), than you could have the issue going on with both L and R side tie-rod ends. It is also possible the steering rack is worn and sloppy, that too would cause it to do that action on both sides. If it is the rack than it needs to be replaced.

Make sure you isolate where the problem is before you buy any parts. I put my hand on the tie-rod end itself and wiggle it in and out with the other hand. The one with any movement need to be replaced. If all are good, than it must be the steering rack.

It is possible that the rack mounting bushings are shot allow the whole rack assembly to wiggle back and fouth too.

[ARCHINSTL]

It is possible that the rack mounting bushings are shot allow the whole rack assembly to wiggle back and fouth too.

I would add to Petros' comment here - mine were so rotten from oil, particularly the DS, that I'm surprised the rack did not wander.
See:
1. https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6519
2. https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... ods#p15173
3. https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... ols#p24331

I had photos of the mushy bushings, but they disappeared when the site was moved to a new server - they were also in my old 'puter, which died...
Tom M.