I think she might be dead...

[gmeddy]

thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll start working through them all today.

The new Bosch plugs I got have a much smaller gap than the old NGK ones I was running... probably around the suggested amount of 0.032" was it?

Took her for a drive up the road about 15 mins each way, running rough as guts, only getting around 50% power.
Really lumpy at idle, idle is too high, and sometimes take an abnormally long time to drop from high revs down to a stable idle at around 1200 rpm, i know it should be around 800 someone said, but it's running so lumpy it will stall if it go's bellow 1000.

Pretty sure, though it was hard to tell while its running so lumpy, that its got a vacuum leak on the accelerator cable side of the carb.
I will probably pull it off and re-seal it with high-temp silicone this time, all it has at the moment is the original gasket out of the box with no sealant.
I will re-seal all my vac port plugs too, just in case one of them is leaking.

Almost 100% sure the dizzy is on the right tooth this time, i've had it on and off again so many times, and last time i had the motor sitting right on, as you see in the last vid, TDC compression stroke when I put the dizzy right on.

Will go down the wrecking yards today and look for a new advance vac canister and check for good looking alternators too... external regulator too, I should probably get a new one of them too.

I will also do the "pull one lead off at a time" test to see if I can isolate a dead cylinder.
But I've had a lead come off while driving before and know how bad that feels, and it's running quite different at the moment.
But I'll do it anyway.

Compression test and valve test will be the next big thing to check IMHO...

But getting the charge back into the system is pretty crucial too.

Typical of me to get multiple problems hit at once.

New dizzy condenser could be in order too, though the one on it is only 4 years old.

[TURTCEL]

Well at least she is still on the road. Sounds like you got your hands full with some jobs on the 'ol girl. Chip away at them...you will succeed.

Check all the contacts on the alternator, battery, and grounds to make sure they are free of corrosion. A lot of the time problems in the electrical system are souly from bad connections. Also, make sure that all the cells on your battery are full. Add distilled water if they are low. Does your charge light come on?

As for the carb gasket leak, I would not put any sealer on this when replacing it. These gaskets are designed to be used dry, they seal the best this way. By using sealer on the gasket you can cause it to soften and get cut while tightening down or else it can slide out of position a little and cause a leak. Even though you have a Weber Carb I believe yoy still have to run a spacer. Meaning at least 2 gaskets unless you still have the heat shield on which would take 3 gaskets. Replace all carb gaskets and make sure to tighten down evenly (most important thing). If you can not buy new gaskets just get some bulk-sheet gasket paper and cut out a new one with a razor blade...use old gasket or carb base for template.

Use some spray carb cleaner after you have sealed everything up as far as vacuum leaks go and use it to locate any others. Spray it directly at vacuum hose connections, plugs, mounting gasket areas while car runs to see if the RPM's change...if so you found another leak. These cars are hypersensitive to vacuum leaks.

Make sure your PCV valve is working properly too. If it is clogged up it will cause excess crankcase pressure in the engine by not allowing pressure and gases to release making the car run rough.

A plugged or dirty carb jet could also be causing the car to run rough. I still believe your issue stems from ignition and timing problems mostly.

Keep on Tercin'

Peace

[TURTCEL]

And seriously, get a timing light...a world of differnce easier to work on the car with one. Some experienced Terc owners have an ear for adjusting by feel, sound, and performance. But I still suggest using a precision tool for this.

****Petros is good at the hear, sound, feel method. He has an ear for it, I don't. Show me the light.****

Peace

[dlb]

until you put a timing light on it, you can't rule out incorrect ignition timing. try that asap.

[TURTCEL]

I agree with DLB all the way on that. But you need to fix that vacuum advance first so the dizzy is working smoothly inside.

Did you check the gap of the new spark plugs, or just install them? These need to be checked with a feeler guage to assure proper gap.

Peace

[Petros]

A timing light is useful not just for timing, but to verify the spark is steady, the mech and vac advance is working, distributor shaft is good, etc. but in a pinch, you do not need one for setting the timing, as long as you understand that too little or too much timing is not good for the engine (too little and you will burn the exhaust valves, too much and you will damage the head gasket).

You always want to run the most advance you can without getting ping (that crackling noise deep in the engine on hard acceleration). That will give the best power output and economy.

By the sounds of this issue, it is not the spark timing that is causing it.

[gmeddy]

yesterday i located a tercel at a wrecking yard that looks in better shape than mine in the engine bay.
The mechanic i had with me said it smelled like the engine got cooked, maybe he lost all his oil, because the radiator is in like-new condition and still full of good green.

The dizzy on it is an electronic model, and it still has the alternator and voltage regulator too.
This mechanic I made friends with, and he agreed to get the parts off the wreck and fit it all and try get it running smooth for me, in exchange for me doing a tint job on his old 4wd Nissan Patrol. Window tinting is my profession...

So I'm gonna leave it in his hands next week, and see how he go's.

I pulled off the Carb this morning, a lot of greasy muck all around it from leaked fuel i assume.
I re sealed the base adaptor plate, and found that one of the threaded studs that holes the carby to the adapter plate was stripped, the thread in the adaptor plate all chewed out. So I put some locktite thread locker on that and re-installed it.

the PCV on the top of the engine has free flow when I suck on it's hose, so thats a vacuum leak as well i guess? I'm not sure how they are supposed to work.
So I'm thinking of just capping that line off to the carb so it's not another vacuum leak.

The electronic dizzy on the other Terc has only two wires plugged into it, I would guess one has to be + 12v input, what is the other one? (I assume it would not be earth, as it has earth already through the connection to the motor.)

thanks

[TURTCEL]

Do not cap off the PCV line gmeddy. The PCV valve should act as a one way valve venting gases and pressure out of the valve cover from the engine crankcase. If you can rattle the PCV valve and the stopper inside if free and loose you are good. If it is gummed up and stuck closed it needs to be replaced.

I suggest you go to the repair sections guide and download the FSM, this will help you greatly in figuring certain things out and how to test components. Very useful tool.

Hope the mechanic works out for you....I will never let anyone work on my Terc besides myself again. You at least have a good barter deal going so it should work out fine. It's when you pay a shop a bunch of money only to have them know nothing aout your car and charge you out the ass just so you can take the car home and fix it yourself. Or, that has at least been my experience.

That bad carb stud was definitely a point of a vacuum leak...good thing you found and fixed that.

Peace

[dlb]

the PCV on the top of the engine has free flow when I suck on it's hose, so thats a vacuum leak as well i guess? I'm not sure how they are supposed to work.
So I'm thinking of just capping that line off to the carb so it's not another vacuum leak.

the test in the FSM for the pcv is as follows:

remove it
blow from the cylinder head side
air should pass easily
blow from the intake manifold side
air should pass with difficulty

that's it. pretty easy.

[gmeddy]

ok, GOOD NEWS:
All the rough running was just timing.
I went around to the mechanics place and the first thing we did was put a timing light on it, and found that the timing was so far out that we couldn't find the mark on the flywheel for a while, it was half way round to the left, so about 120 degree BTDC I guess, amazing it was running at all!!

So after moving the dizzy a cog back in the right direction, it runs smooth as silk!

The BAD NEWS:

Alternator fault is still a mystery.
We can't find out why its not charging, we put another alternator off the other terc on it and its just the same.

Really need to know if all the wiring is working, but have no idea what all the wiring is supposed to be.

Is that in the FSM?

I will have a look.

Does anyone know of a vehicle that has a new internally regulated alternator that fits in the tercel?

Thanks.

[TURTCEL]

My 2 Tercs both have internally regualted altermators. One is an '85 SR5 and the other is an '87 DLX model. Is it a UK design to have externlly regulater alternatores?

Peace

[Petros]

I think this same alternator is common to the corolla as well as other toyota models. You might have the one with the external voltage regulator and it is bad. that is an easy fix, you can get a generic voltage reg for your car to work if you have the external voltage regulator alternator.

Also, check the ground cable on the engine, and there should be a ground wire directly for the alternator as well. Check the connectors at your battery including the ground. Clean all the contacts. Check connectors at the alternator and the other end of the wire at the fuse block, and condition of the wires, contacts and so fourth. You should be able to check the output on the alternator with a simple volt-olm meter.

[gmeddy]

I did some quick research on YouTube...
I searched "How to wire an externally regulated alternator" and got a few good hits.
The first one I watched was about an 85 model Ford, and the dude straight up told me what no one to date had been able to tell me, very very useful info.
How to just straight up test your alternator for output.

Step 1:
Remove main cable and the 3 wired plug from the back of the alternator.

Step 2:
Start engine

Step 3:
connect a wire from positive battery terminal to the F (field) terminal on the alternator.
(The three terminals that the plug sticks into have letters corresponding to each one, they are printed on the back of the alternator near the plug hole)

Step 4:
Test the output from the main cable attachment point on the back of the alternator.
If your alternator is good, it will be outputting around 50V or more, so don't test it with your test lamp like i did, the bulb will blow immediately.

The way I applied power to the F terminal was to just touch the cable to it that I had removed from the back of the alternator, the big thick one that bolts to the back of the alternator, that cable is directly attached to the positive side of the battery.
You should see a tiny blue spark as it connects, because it's kicking the alternator into full output, you should also hear the engine revs die a little bit as it takes the load of the alternator.

The next step is to work out why the alternator was not working in the first place, now that you have worked out that it is not faulty. (Or maybe you have worked out that it is dead if there is no output after doing the above test!)

The voltage regulator plug, as your FSM shows, is labeled with letters for each of it's 6 wires.
One is F, thats the one that goes directly to the F terminal on the back of the alt, and if it's not outputting anything, your Voltage Reg is dead, OR it is not getting any power to itself either.

The other thing to check is that it is getting a constant 12v supply in the B terminal, if i recall correctly, the bottom right terminal, it's a thick white wire.
Mine was getting the 12v input there.

You will also notice that the top left is labeled IG, not too hard to guess that should be 12v supply when the ignition key is turned on.
My Voltage Reg was not getting anything at this point.
I found my point of failure.

So I plugged everything back into the alternator and supplied 12v to this wire, and "boom baby!" everything worked fine! 14 volts at the battery.

I will post this in the Repair Guides as an Alternator Test Guide.

So looks like it's all good.
My baby runs better than ever now, all them goodies I gave her while trying to work out what was wrong have made all the difference. No hesitation anymore at low revs, no stuttering.
Hopefully I get good fuel economy too.
Looks like the road trip from Darwin to Qld is back on!

Thanks for all the help everyone.

[dlb]

nice, glad to hear you got it sorted out. happy trails, gmeddy.

[marlinh]

I seem to remember that those tests are not supposed to last more than a few seconds. Or else you will damage the alternator.