Fuel Pump is chattering away

[DanT]

I suspect that I am going to need to replace my fuel pump, but thought I would ask for some advice before getting into this.

I have a ticking/clicking sound coming from around the head, which goes up and down with the revs. The sound is loud enough to hear through the firewall, and is noticable with the hood up. This sound certainly was not there before.

Initially I thought this was coming from somewhere in the valve train, but I tracked the sound and now I am certain it is the fuel pump. (I packed fiberglass insulation around the pump and listened under the hood and then went for a drive. Ticking sound was gone. Insulation comes off. Ticking sound is back.)

I don't think this kind of noise from a fuel pump is normal? I talked with a guy at NAPA and he said the pump was on the way out. "Likely the spring has broken and the pump is chattering away on the camshaft without any pressure from the spring"

Advice on what might be going on with this pump?

I have not pulled the pump yet... but I will soon. The pump sure looks like an OEM from the pictures I have seen. Car has 242K on it.

If I do need a pump I am looking at these 3 brands:

OEM Kyosan for $49 +free shipping. (Likely the one I want? I suspect this is a very good price from fcimports.)
Airtex $35 (Made in US and claims to be ready for the latest ethanol.)
Carter $35 (recommended by NAPA.)

I have been told that the rubber parts in the stock carbs do not handle ethanol very well at all. National Carburetor claims to address these ethanol issues with their new rubber seals and other updated adjustments... which is one of the reasons I bought a rebuilt carb from them. Just wondering if this fuel pump introduces a situation where a newer after-market part like the Airtex (that claims to handle ethanol) might actually be a better choice than the Kyosan OEM this time? (Not sure if Kyosan is building carbs for the ethanol issues now also?)

Thanks again for opinions on this...

Best regards,

Dan

[Petros]

any of the pumps will work fine, these pumps have a very long life. I have over 300k on my fuel pump original factory fuel pump, I have never had one go bad (I have owned 9 tercel4wd and worked on many many more), but I know they do go bad occasionally. I would not hesitate to put a used one in from a wrecking yard, that is how reliable these pumps are. You might try the stethescop trick as a final check: use a long screw driver, with the engine running put the tip against the fuel pump and press your ear against the other end. You will hear the clicking. Try it elsewhere on the engine, you will hear the valves open and closing, the cam shaft whorling around, etc. You can isolate the noise this way easy.

It is an easy swap, it takes less time to change one than it took you to write this post up, just get one and replace it. Two 12mm bolts hold it on. I also advise liberally coating both sides of the plastic insulator with non-hardening form-a-gasket to prevent oil leaks. the cool fuel keeps the pump cooled, and the nearby exhaust manifold and head stay very hot, this temp extreme will cause gaskets wear out and leak oil like crazy. Use the gaskets, but also coat both sides with form-a-gasket to allow the relative movement from cold to hot side of the insulator. And if you want to keep your engine clean and oil leak free, expect to have to remove it every few years and refresh the form-a-gasket.

[Ace]

I used to have a bit of tapping sound, apparently from the fuel pump, and accepted it as normal. It was consistent, not loud but identifiable. I ended up replacing the original fuel pump this past summer because it developed a leak from the seam between the two chamber halves. I just used a generic brand replacement fuel pump for $35 and it does the job. Easy replacement.

[DanT]

Appreciate the help from each of you. Thanks.

To seal the gaskets on the pan and oil pump when replacing the crank shaft bearings I used permatex ultra black on the gaskets. Totally dry so far. No leaks anywhere. Says it is good to 500 degrees and recommended for valve covers. Wondering if that is a good sealant to coat the fuel pump gaskets with or not? I see Form-a-Gasket listed at AutoZone for about $4 a tube. Never used it before, but will certainly get the stuff if it is better for oil leaks in this area.

Right now there are NO LEAKS of any kind on the engine. Also, after rebuilding the block I cleaned the engine compartment far beyond any level imagainable for most cars of this age. (Yes I even used a tooth brush in the spark plug holes with solvent. The polished the camshaft cover with aluminum wheel polish.) I was just sick of the mess that was created after I left the oil cap off last year... on top of 240k of accumulated crud. The head and valve cover look immaculate... as does the newly painted block... and the air cleaner cover is freshly painted also. It is a real pleasure to open the hood and go in there now.

Sorry for the digression. Bottom line: Damn sure do not want any oil leaks coming from the fuel pump gasket.

[Ace]

I use regular RTV 100% silicon caulk for valve cover gaskets and fuel pump gaskets and others that aren't subject to extreme heat. Red and black RTV are rated for higher temps if you prefer. Spread it in thin even coats and clamp it down before it dries too much.

[dlb]

Right now there are NO LEAKS of any kind on the engine. Also, after rebuilding the block I cleaned the engine compartment far beyond any level imagainable for most cars of this age. (Yes I even used a tooth brush in the spark plug holes with solvent. The polished the camshaft cover with aluminum wheel polish.) I was just sick of the mess that was created after I left the oil cap off last year... on top of 240k of accumulated crud. The head and valve cover look immaculate... as does the newly painted block... and the air cleaner cover is freshly painted also. It is a real pleasure to open the hood and go in there now.

pics!

[DanT]

I installed a new Kyosan OEM fuel pump on 12/24. The bothersome clicking/ticking sound is gone, and the car feels solid once again.

The old pump seemed to test out ok when I pulled it for inspection, but it continued to make noises... that were coming from inside of the fuel pump... that were not there before. Perhaps the pump would have kept going, not sure, but I did not want to put up with the ticking sound... and I just did not trust the fuel pump.

I decided to spring for the $4 non-hardening form-a-gasket. It is very different from silicon... which I did not expect. Read some reviews on the net. Some mechanics love this stuff... with a sentiment that they do not share with silicon. So far, I like this stuff: It goes on easily, there are no leaks, and I tend to trust Petros to know what he is talking about.

That said, the product asks for a 4 hour set time...which generates an interesting question when it is 25 degress outside and 40 degrees in my unheated garage. Could not find any information on the temperature range this product would tolerate during application. Drove the car long enough to heat up the block. When the temp came down to 90 on the surfaces near the gasket I applied the product. Not sure if this was necessary or not, but seemed like it would not hurt... and might be of some help.

Pictures of the engine compartment coming soon. (Need to take the pics with my cell phone and send them to myself one by one.... and then post them. Have a bit much going on this week, But will get to it...)

Thanks again for all the advice on this repair...

Dan T

[Petros]

I like the non-hardening form-a-gasket for most applications, especially where there are large temp changes, it stays flexible and soft so it can move with the change in shape/size with the temp change. It is also fuel resistant, which is not true about the silicone type. It is easy to work as stated, and it is the closets thing to a "universal" sealant as you can get, I carry it in my tool kit for the road. You can even use it instead of a gasket, which means I can help others on I might find stuck on the road, should the need arise.

The only thing I do not like about it is it will stick to your skin and almost nothing will remove it (except some toxic chemicals), it has to wear off.

[DanT]

Certainly agree with your statement that this stuff is difficult to get off of the hands... which I did not expect either. Not worried at first because lacquer thinner takes off anything. Not so. I ended up using hot water and a lot of thumb and skin pressure... to roll it away and wear it away... before this stuff had even fully cured. Took this as a good sign.

[Petros]

you might consider keeping the old fuel pump as an emergency spare. it works now but that noise may indeed indicated it will wear out soon, so if you carry it in your car and your new fuel pump fails, you can always swap it out and get the car home.

Make sure you clean it out well, and label what is wrong with it, so you do not mistake it for a good pump when you find it five years from now. If you do not want to save it, throw it out so it will not be saved as if it was a good part.