Wobble in front passenger wheel well during acceleration

[deejay1272]

Hey everyone,

I'm planning some projects on my T4WD and wanted to get your input on an issue I'm experiencing. Here is the background:

A while back I replaced the front passenger axle (the old one was dead). When doing this, I only replaced from the red line out to the wheel as shown below.


Now whenever I go around a bend in the road that goes to the left (exerting force on the passenger side), I get a wobble sound and a slight wobble/suspension shake that makes my passengers nervous;) This only occurs when I'm giving it gas AND going around the corner (or when the car is at the lowest point in a dip in the road - where the springs are most depressed). If I let off the gas half way through the turn, then the sound disappears. Because of this, I'm thinking that it's an issue with the axle that I replaced since power is being transferred to the axle at this time.

Is it possible that whatever parts of my axle I didn't replace are causing this problem? If so, then why is it that this wobble only happens when I'm causing a loading of some sort?

Thanks for any input on this,
Dan

[john]

Hello! I have experienced similar sounds in the past from my axels under the same circumstances. I have found that when I remove the axel, the damaged portion is always the part closest to the wheel. The outer CV joint near the wheel seems to be the weakest. Replacing the entire axel might cure your problem. I never had one that was damaged at the inboard joint. Before you pull your wheel off, try to wiggle it back and forth, this may allow you to tell if your wheel bearings are ok. I have had good luck with junkyard axels. Have not bought a new one in years.

My axels are fine at present. I do need to do some work on my tie rods and struts and stuff. At speed, under the right conditions, I can get some interesting harmonics coming from the front end. If I have a passenger I always launch into my best Mr. Scott imitation, "She's breaking up, she's breaking up; I don't think I can hold her together much longer!!" Some passengers appreciate star trek and some do not.
best of luck, john

[Highlander]

Kind of sounds like what hte green car was doing when I bought it. Check the front wheel bearing on that side. When I disassembled that one, the inner inner race FELL out of the bearing it was so badly worn (it should be a press-fit)- the wobble and vibration came during braking, and it was (I surmised) due to the ball bearings falling into the space between the inner and outer races as the wheel wobbled. JMHO.

[Petros]

sounds like a bad CV joint, almost nothing else would cause those symptoms. A bad bearing make grinding noise all the time, but worse when turning to put weight on that side. I presume by "wobble sound" you mean a thumping or clunking when you accelerate? that would be the CV. I have had wheels wobble in high speed turns that I found was bad sway bar end bushings (the ones that join the sway bar to the lateral lower arm in the front, large rubber bushings). I fixed it by making some 1/4" think rubber washers to put more compression on by old and cracked rubber doughnut bushings.

Also, you might check your lower ball joint, and the tie rod ends on that side. Possible a sloppy rack and pinion could cause excess play, not usually the wobble.

How was it you replaced the outer axle, and not the inner spline shaft? Or did I misunderstand your picture?

[deejay1272]

How was it you replaced the outer axle, and not the inner spline shaft? Or did I misunderstand your picture?

Hey Petros - I ended up pulling an axle off of a parts car at the bone yard but when I did this, all but the inner, inner spline shaft came off. Because I didn't have the right tools to remove the whole thing, I simply took everything from the inner "tripod" out to the wheel connection and went home. Because I didn't have a replacement inner spline shaft, I ended up using the one that was originally on my car.

I have to think that this is axle related because if I don't accelerate in the turn, then I don't get a noise or wobble. Bummer that I have to do it again, but it seems that the axle I got was in some way compromised.

I'll check the tie rod and ball joint while I'm in there, but I think they're ok. Also, my shocks are horribly, horribly worn out so I might learn more about what's going on when I'm in there doing the struts soon.

[Petros]

twice I have driven cross county with Tercels with non-existant shocks, not so bad on smooth roads.

Unless you used the same brand of axles on the parts swap, I would not count on the CV joints being compatible. These are three precision ground high strength steel bearings that must fit exactly correctly or you get clunks or clicks. I would suspect the two halfs of the inner CV joints are not compatible. An easy test would be for you to try and rotate the shaft relative to the end joint, there should be no detectable lash across the CV joint. Put one hand each on either side of the boot and try and rotate in opposite directions, if there is any rotational play, the CV joint is junk. The axles should be replaced as a complete unit, unless you are rebuilding the joint yourself.

Removing the inner spline only takes a pry bar to lever it out, you can even use a tire iron or large screw driver.

[dlb]

i find the best way to remove a CV from the diff is to drive a large flat blade screwdriver between the diff housing and the inner joint housing. a few taps with a hammer on the screwdriver and the CV pops out.

[deejay1272]

Thanks for the input, guys. I will be taking things apart very soon to install new struts, so I'll perform the CV joint test that you describe to see if I can get to the bottom of what's going on. If the joint has any play in it, I'll replace with a full axle from the inner spline out to the wheel this time.

[deejay1272]

Hey everyone - I'm halfway through installing my new EMPI axle that I just received in the mail last week.

I got the inner spline out of the transmission case and I'm considering pouring more gear oil in the gearbox while I have it open. Any thoughts on doing this rather than putting oil in through one of the filler holes as the FSM recommends?

[dlb]

i wouldn't do it. the filler holes are foolproof because as long as the car is level, the excess gear oil will spill out the hole. by filling at the CV output hole, you won't know where the level will be.

if you're concerned about your gear oil level, i would get it up on stands so it's level and fill till it starts to spill. either that or drain it and measure off the exact amount required (4.1 liters, can't remember the imperial measurement) before refilling it.

[smokerx]

whenever I go around a bend in the road that goes to the left (exerting force on the passenger side), I get a wobble sound and a slight wobble/suspension shake that makes my passengers nervous

I got the same problem but it started as a slight wobble and gradually increased into a massive shaking of the front end. I suspect my sway bar end on that side.


When I replaced that rubber "bushing" he's holding I noticed that the sway bar end sleeve was missing or badly damaged and the sway bar end itself has been cut half way through the rod where the sleeve sits. I think I improvised a new sleeve around the old sway bar end on that side and it fixed nothing. I can't find a junk yard for a sway bar so Im stuck beyond taking it out again, welding into the massive pitting, then file it back to round or inspect the improvised sleeve and continue improvising until it stops shaking. Maybe it's not the problem and just a symptom.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7481

[celtglen]

Thanks for the input, guys. I will be taking things apart very soon to install new struts, so I'll perform the CV joint test that you describe to see if I can get to the bottom of what's going on. If the joint has any play in it, I'll replace with a full axle from the inner spline out to the wheel this time.

Do think about looking at the bushings--ALL of them. I had a wobble on the pass side and it turned out to be the wheel bearing, it wore out again about 3K miles later because I hadn't paid attention to the bushings -- and the inner tie rods, CV etc.

[dlb]

where are you located, smokerx? a forum member might be near you and able to spare a good sway bar. or maybe one could find one at a wrecker and mail it to you. failing those, i would try what you mentioned about welding more meat onto the bone and then filing it down.

[Petros]

I do not think that would cause the wobble you describ. I had a strange wobble on the right side of the car when I made fast sweeping right turns, under certain load conditions the right wheel would occilate very annoyingly. I made some 1/4 in thick rubber washers and put it in with the swap bar end bushings to firm it up, and pull the wheel slightly forward to increase castor, and it seems to have worked. Other places to look is the tie-rod ends (should be no play), ball joint and the inner bushing on the lower control arm (the link with the ball joint on one end, and it has a rubber bushing on the inboard end where it bolts to the car body). And as mensioned the wheel bearing too.

Any one of these things can cause that kind of wobble. Though you sway bar might be worn, it will not cause that wobble.

[smokerx]

I`m in Texas dlb. Thanks for the advice Petros. I've replaced the round cushion bushings that are in the other pic and will get around to looking at these sway bar bushings when i pull it and try to have it welded:

Should be in line with the metal on metal gouging in my sway bar end. I`ll also try to make those rubber washers and figure out exactly where to put them and try to get pics of the gouging to show off. It's most definitely the effect of wobbly wheel not being attended to, although I"m now planning on inspecting all the parts in that list of possible culprits. I`m half expecting loose tie rods as effect of culprit of massive shaking and to handle the repair all at once. I haven't been driving it because of the wobble for the safety of other drivers in case it veers out of control when it breaks so I should really find time and stop procrastinating the parts bill away on this and research whether to cold shock the metal after the weld...