88 Tercel SR5 - Engine; what would you do?

[KenR]

I've got an '88 SR5 wagon with close to 300k miles on it. I recently replaced the water pump as the bearings failed, but shortly after it started overheating badly under load. Suspecting a bad head gasket, I took it apart. Head gasket didn't have any obvious issues but the #1 exhaust valve is missing a piece, which would also explain it's poor running condition.

So the quandry: I can get a rebuilt head for about $300, but putting that on an engine with 300,000 miles may be spending good money for bad. I don't necessarily want to spend $1,500+ on a rebuilt engine and a search of used, running 3AC engines in the area came up empty. Love the car, but it seems silly to dump a bunch of money into it based on it's age and miles. Hell, I only paid $500 for it last year and have spent another $500 on miscellaneous stuff to keep it going. I've certainly gotten my moneys worth out of it.

So what say you? Put a new head on an old engine? Just how many miles can one expect on the bottom end of a 3AC?

[dlb]

did you do a compression test before you pulled the head? that would give you an indication if the bottom end was worth putting a rebuilt head on. if you didn't, that's a personal call. if the engine pulled well when you were driving it then i would take the chance, but i'm biased and love these cars to a fault.

how many miles the bottom end of an engine can take depends on how it was cared for. my friend has a '92 all-trac with 375,000 kms on it and the engine is at 180 PSI across all cylinders--that's because the PO did oil changes every 5,000 km. so knowing the history of your car could help you decide if it's worth it.

[marlinh]

Did the engine smoke at all? A puff of smoke on deceleration may mean valve stem seals. I have seen oil control rings carbon up due to improper maintenance (infrequent oil changes). They tend to smoke more under load, etc. Like dlb if you have maintenance records you can decide with that info. Good luck. Maybe a good used head?

[Petros]

welcome to the list ken.

The bottom end is usually pretty durable, I have known people that put 400k miles on their engines. OTOH, my first one has 180k on it and it had piston slap (worn cylinders and pistons were loose in the bore). It eventually caused the piston to fail, and it had to be rebuilt with over-sized pistons, cylinders rebored. if the bearings were never run low on oil, the bearings last a long time and should be fine.

If you do the work your self it is not that costly to do. I wrote a thread for the repair guides section of this forum on replacing the head gasket with a number of recommended mods to the gasket and head to improve durablity.

Very likely you damage the head gasket when the water pump went, it is not always obvious where it failed (usually between cyl 1 and 3 where it is a hot spot). With the damage valve the head had to come off anyway.

Where are you located? You should be able to have a machine shop rebuild your head for under that price. I highly recommend replacing all of the exhaust valves, and the guides if necessary. Plus new stem seals. If you do not have a machine shop nearby I have a spare head, and all new parts (ex. valves, seals, etc.) ready to be installed. I can have it ready for you in a few weeks if you can wait that long, I give you a fair deal.

BTW, to prevent the exhaust valves from burning again set the timing at 10 deg btdc, rather than the factor (emissions) 5 deg.

Your car is well worth saving. Even if the rings eventually give up over the coming years, you can pull the head and save it, and than redo the low end.

[KenR]

Thanks for the comments, all.

While I don't know the cars entire history, it's overall condition leads me to believe that it was looked after pretty well. The car smoked a bit at start-up but after it was warm, nothing visible. I didn't do a compression check and wish I would have. At least I could've gotten a read on two of the cylinders.

The cylinders all look clean with no ridges or grooves. The pistons have the expected amount of carbon on their tops (2, 3 and 4 anyway - 1 was recently steam cleaned). I'll look into rebuilding the head locally tomorrow (Salt Lake City, UT), or order one. Petros, thank you for your repair guide on the head gasket fix; I read that earlier and it was most helpful. I may be in touch with you about your head if I can't put something together quickly.

Glad you all confirmed what my gut was telling me - to fix and keep it. Oddly enough I really love this old car, even more than my new stuff.

[GLet71]

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned tossing your motor and looking for a 4ac instead. I am sure there must be a few threads on this site that can show you just how quick and easy the swap can be (apparently bolts right on without mod). They are easy to find engines, therefore, more reasonably priced as well. Hell, they even used them in 85-88 Chevy Nova's so you know they've got to be around!

I pasted this from wiki on what the 4ac powered back in the day (makes for an easy wrecker search):
Applications:
AT151 Carina II 1983–1987 (Europe only)
AT160 Celica 1985–1989 (ex. Japan)
AE71 Corolla 1982–1984 (North America, Australia & South Africa only)
AE82/86 Corolla 1983–1987 (ex. Japan)
AT151 Corona 1983–1987 (ex. Japan)
Elfin Type 3 Clubman
Chevrolet Nova (USA NUMMI rebadged Sprinter) 1985-1988

[dlb]

greg's right, you could always go for a 4AC swap if you decided you wanted to pull the whole thing. it's the same as a 3A but a 1.6 L rather than a 1.5 L. the heads can even be swapped between the 3A and 4A blocks, you just have to keep the right valve cover with the right head. you need to swap over everything that hangs off the block to make the 4A fit in the tercel: water pump, alternator, intake and exhaust manifolds, oil pan, starter...that might be it, i can't remember without looking at it.

[GLet71]

I guess you'll have to swing through Nelson then~