Multi trial starts

[kitchman]

When the engine is cold pumping the accelerator 2-3 times then cranking the engine it starts then stalls as if starved for fuel. After repeating this 2-3 times the engine will continue running and warm up. Once the engine is warm it will start right up? What am I not seeing?
Thanks in advance

[dlb]

could be a vacuum leak or one of the cold running controls is faulty but easiest thing first: have you set the fast idle?

[GLet71]

When the engine is cold pumping the accelerator 2-3 times then cranking the engine it starts then stalls as if starved for fuel. After repeating this 2-3 times the engine will continue running and warm up. Once the engine is warm it will start right up? What am I not seeing?
Thanks in advance

Document this well Kitchman, I have the same problem~

[kitchman]

Needed to raise the fast idle approx. 5 hundred rpms. Raised the TP approx. 3 hundred rpms. Will report back after trying to start up tomorrow.

[kitchman]

Ok,
raising both the fast idle and TP helped but it appears you need to pump it quite a bit to get it to run at the initial fast idle setting. Again it doesn't seem to have a sufficient reserve of fuel when cold starting. After the engine is warm this is not a problem.Wondering if this some how a float ajustment issue, its not clear through the sight glass if the level is correct, but going to again. Waiting for delivery of timing belt, h20 pump and idler pulley and cooling fan switch. Some tips and a link to some photos of changing the t-belt would be great. The fsm doesn't state this but wouldn't it be better to first break the nut on crank first and then line up the TDC marks, so as not to risk the lines moving when trying to loosen the nut on the crank?
Again thanks for the help!!

[celtglen]

Kitchman,

I don't drive a 4WD so please forgive me if this applies only to 2WD ATs. My original owner manual (1984) said when first starting the engine; first turn the key to ON then depress the gas pedal -- in one motion-to the floor and back halfway up, hold your foot there then turn the key to start. It has worked for me all these years and as I said I do NOT drive a manual shift nor a 4W. I have tired the 3 pump method only to have it flood and then waiting about 60 seconds and trying again.

Don't know, as I said, IF this relates to the 4WDs--so please no one flame me!

Hope this helps
CG

[marlinh]

Have you checked if the choke works? Linkages could be sticky, chokestat need adjusting.

[Petros]

Check for any vac leaks, or leaking components, if not vac leaks than there are three emissions control items that can make it too lean during cold start. the thermal operated vac switch on the fitting where the upper rad hose attaches (at the front of the head), the High Altitude compensator (If it is failed it will default to running lean), the mixture control unit next the coolant overflow tank (just forward of the strut tower on the right side).

If you can find no vac leaks, the choke is working properly, than go to the FSM and run the functional tests for each of these systems. ONce corrected it should start and drive fine when it is cold.

[kitchman]

Thanks all!
The choke seems to opporate correctly and I couldn't find any vac. leaks. As stated in a previous post the orange jet #1 near the back driver's side of the carb. broke and a piece of vac. line was installed in its place. Also the 40 amp. fuse for the CMH system has been burnt for a while and I haven't as yet replaced it, could the missing jet or the CMH not working have any thing to do with the problem? Will look into those suggested emission components.

[dlb]

kitchman, i'm not sure about the orange and black jet but i don't think the CMH is causing the problem you describe here. the FSM states that the cold mixture heater heats the intake manifold while the coolant is below a certain temp to improve emissions and driveability. that will have no effect on starting the car, although it is a component you will want to correct.

refresh my memory, what components does the orange and black jet sit between? those jets are used to meter or slow the vacuum being supplied to a component so while not crucial, they do play a role in the big picture and i would also suggest correcting that. any terc of this vintage at a wrecker should have one.

[kitchman]

Hello again dlb,
Thanks for your assistance, the orange jet #1 goes inline between the vac, metal piping and the side, aka diaphram A port of the choke breaker. I today discovered that the choke valve was not completrly closing when the throtle was fully opened and would only close fully when manually moved. When fully closed the engine starts no problem at fast idle. After checking the fsm for correct choke breaker opperation I found it to be working ok, though when the vac. hose to port A on the CB is removed the engine stalls. The fsm dosen't state this but thinking that jet #1 acts as a check valve and when the vac. hose without the jet is removed a radical drop in vac. in the dissy. advance is causing the stall?
If the choke valve continues to not fully close when cold is this fixed by ajusting the automatic choke or tweaking the choke linkage? The fsm states to loosen the screws on the choke heater housing and turn to richen or lean the start up mixture. On my vehicle there are no screws but insted rivets

[dlb]

hmmm, i'm not sure. sounds like the CB is working properly though and as you pointed out, the jet is needed to moderate the amount of vacuum applied to the CB, so i would replace that first to rule it out.

best way to test the electric choke is to check its resistance. unplug the green plug near the passenger fender and hook up an ohmeter to it. for a 3AC (except manual canadian ones) it should be 17-19 ohms, and all others should be 20-22 ohms. i assume yours will be in the first group.

i don't think you need to adjust the electric choke and would not mess with it because it would cause another variable to consider. FYI though, you would have to drill the rivets out, tap threads into the housing, and re-secure it with small screws or bolts. PITA.

[Petros]

I think what you are calling a "jet" is just a vac line check valve. The vac advance would not cause it to stall, it only advances it like 7 deg, not enough to cause any cold start issues.

The North American chokes are riveted to prevent tampering with emissions operation, you can actually drill the rivets out and install screws and nuts. However, I have found the choke either works correctly, or it needs to be replaced. If you make it close all the way with adjustment, it may not open all the way. If you do remove the rivets, make darn sure the choke is really the problem. buy a used carb from a wrecking yard is not too costly, as self service yard is typically $15. So even if it is not entirely a good carb, it would be good for parts and hopefully it will have working choke you can just swap out.