'86 AL21 3ac vacuum advance went...

[overs10ded]

Hello, new to the forum and to Toyota vehicles...but I bought one! Has 178k on the clock, 5spd, working A/C, and supposed rebuilt engine 4 years ago and seems to run ok with the stock carb which has most of the lines plugged. I live in Costa Rica and I needed a wagon and am very happy with the Tercel. First upgrade was 14" steel Toyota wheels ($60) and some 185/60r14 Bridgestone Potenza GIII's (for the tropical rain) I found on Craigs list for $200 from a guy who won them at a golf tournament but had no use for them. After scouring the forums and finding this is the place to be for information on my car, I purchased a used Weber 32/36 on ebay in the states along with parting everything else needed to do the conversion together from ebay and am waiting to figure out shipping which is a PITA here for anything bigger than a magazine and am not going back for several months. So the clutch chatters, had a slight vacuum leak, and I noticed right off that the thermostat was inop or non-existent. After getting stuck on a hot day with vapor lock and fooling around with the heavy traffic of San Jose, I bought one and put it in... there wasn't one before! So suspect the quality of engine rebuild by the owner of 10 years brother-in-law who did the work. I'm getting 21-22.5 mpg and look forward to the weber conversion. The Aisin carb is a nightmare! I sprayed it with carb cleaner and was surprised with a small vacuum leak turning into a major one! So after several hours tracking those rotten vaccum lines I found that the vac advance was the culprit. Now the hard part....my advance has only one port! This is not the original vacuum advance as the vacuum lines are there and plugged for the 3 port advance but mine has one. Is there a cheaper version that works with this distributor that only has one port???? I also am interested in finding out about using an MSD controller and a remote coil versus the internal coil and controller inside the distributor. I've seen it on the forums but not much. Before I sink the kind of money into the advance I want to know this is the distributor I want to stay with. I plan on putting another 175k on this ol' girl so I'll become a regular here. I'm an old wrench (53 and counting) with aircraft experience and lots of hot rod desire but here in the land of $6 per gallon fuel and the need for the station wagon the Tercel fills the bill wonderfully...compared to my alternate choice of Subaru the Tercel fits my 6'3" much better with more "way-back" room to boot! Anyway any help will be greatly appreciated and if anyone is considering coming to Costa Rica soon, I'll put you up a couple nights in exchance for carring my Weber and adapter down to me.LOL

Good times!

Bruce

[Petros]

Welcome to the list!

Great to have you. That is a great buy on the tires. 22 mpg is way too low, there is something not right with your engine. You do not really need the three vac ports, one is to retard the timing during normal operation for emissions, it harms the part throttle economy (I have mine disabled), the other is for high altitude compensation, it advances the timing when above 3900 ft. If you do not drive that high in Costa rica you can remove and by pass the High Altitude compensator (see the FSM vac routing diagram for both with and without the HAC). The last one is for advancing the timing during part throttle cruise conditions to improve part throttle economy, you want to make sure the correct vac line is attached for that to happen (again study the vac diagram from the FSM or on this forum).

I would not bother installing MSD ignition, the factory electronic ignition is pretty reliable and delivers a good spark, the gain, if any, would not be worth it. If you are building a high speed racing engine the MSD might be worth it, but than you would want to swap to a 4age engine anyway. Save your money and use it to get this engine running properly. Fix the carb, set the timing, and put a larger free flowing exhaust system on it to improve fuel economy.

BTW, removing the vac lines could harm your fuel economy if not done properly. Many of the vac operated system improve drivablity and economy and it is best to keep them working. The only exception is the means to retard the timing and the EGR, both harm fuel economy and I would disable them if that is your primary motivation.

Also, set your spark timing to 10 or 12 deg BTDC rather than the factory 5 deg. It will also improve your economy and lower the exhaust temperature and prolong the life of the exhaust valves.

If everything is running properly you should get about 26-28 city driving, and about 32-34 hwy mpg. Depending how hard you drive it. Check your compression to make sure the engine is in decent shape, report back here what you find.

Also, while you are at it, jack up each wheel and check they turn easy with not dragging, just to make sure you do not have a brake hanging up to give you the poor fuel economy.

We had no plans to go to costa rica but it sounds like a fun trip. Have room for a couple of guests? I can bring a suitcase full of parts as luggage.

[dlb]

We had no plans to go to costa rica but it sounds like a fun trip. Have room for a couple of guests? I can bring a suitcase full of parts as luggage.

petros, you're going to need a traveling tercel road show!

agreed with petros for most of the above. however, i want to add that the port on the vac advance that advances timing by approx 8* should go to manifold vacuum, while the port that advances about 15* should go to ported vacuum. you can and should hook these up with the weber as well as the stock carb. the first advances timing during idle and hwy cruising while the second advances timing during hwy cruising, giving better economy. since you only have one port, you should check the timing with it disconnected and plugged and then re-check the timing with it hooked up to manifold vacuum. the difference will tell you what you should hook the single line up to while you track down the proper vac advance cans. it won't hurt to run without all the vac advance stuff but you'll get slightly better economy with them.

ditto on hooking up most of the vacuum lines. just use the factory service manual (found at the top of each page here) and check each component first and verify which ones are working properly.

[overs10ded]

Welcome to the list!

Great to have you. That is a great buy on the tires. 22 mpg is way too low, there is something not right with your engine. You do not really need the three vac ports, one is to retard the timing during normal operation for emissions, it harms the part throttle economy (I have mine disabled), the other is for high altitude compensation, it advances the timing when above 3900 ft. If you do not drive that high in Costa rica you can remove and by pass the High Altitude compensator (see the FSM vac routing diagram for both with and without the HAC). The last one is for advancing the timing during part throttle cruise conditions to improve part throttle economy, you want to make sure the correct vac line is attached for that to happen (again study the vac diagram from the FSM or on this forum).

I would not bother installing MSD ignition, the factory electronic ignition is pretty reliable and delivers a good spark, the gain, if any, would not be worth it. If you are building a high speed racing engine the MSD might be worth it, but than you would want to swap to a 4age engine anyway. Save your money and use it to get this engine running properly. Fix the carb, set the timing, and put a larger free flowing exhaust system on it to improve fuel economy.

BTW, removing the vac lines could harm your fuel economy if not done properly. Many of the vac operated system improve drivablity and economy and it is best to keep them working. The only exception is the means to retard the timing and the EGR, both harm fuel economy and I would disable them if that is your primary motivation.

Also, set your spark timing to 10 or 12 deg BTDC rather than the factory 5 deg. It will also improve your economy and lower the exhaust temperature and prolong the life of the exhaust valves.

If everything is running properly you should get about 26-28 city driving, and about 32-34 hwy mpg. Depending how hard you drive it. Check your compression to make sure the engine is in decent shape, report back here what you find.

Also, while you are at it, jack up each wheel and check they turn easy with not dragging, just to make sure you do not have a brake hanging up to give you the poor fuel economy.

We had no plans to go to costa rica but it sounds like a fun trip. Have room for a couple of guests? I can bring a suitcase full of parts as luggage.

Petros, thanks for your response! I believe that the vacuum advance is not the correct one and will get the right one...I do know that this one isn't working as I can blow through it. Also I am going to go through the vac lines with the schematic...just havent yet. I did get the back brakes backed off as they were both adjusted too tight and dragging badly. I have put 3 tanks of gas in her so far and my average is right at 22 but the new thermostat should help after the full throttle floggin' that was required to run with the vapor locking plus the new tires were only on for about half the last tank....and I was pushing her on our winding road with the new tires to enjoy how this car really handles, I'm surprised! The manual rack and pinion is sweet! Also got alignment with the tire install which should help mileage and it was way off, pulling hard to the right.

I appreciate the opinion on the MSD, taken to heart! I did order a set of NGK iridium plugs last week which I can have my state-side family send me in a jetpak envelope. Has NGK wires that are 2 years old. I have a slight occasional miss but upon looking at the distributor cap it looks like a new one would help. Don't have a compression tester here but she seems pretty tight and all the plugs are even and tan. No smoke and about a half quart in the 700+ miles which I feel is good (NO LEAKS!!). I am really counting on hitting that 30mpg combined driving mark. I know driving characteristics are key but I know that this car is needing some adjustments...such as the thermostat and vac advance. Cars here are very expensive and my wife and I looked for several weeks before finding something that has been taken care of half way and that was in our budget-$2,500. We paid $1,900 for this one and I feel good about it! As mentioned before, the clutch chatters and I tried the ol' emergency brake clutch test (partially) and she slipped quite a bit.

I would like some input on a good quality clutch kit to purchase. The trans shifts pretty well with an occasional bump in 3rd that again I feel is more from the clutch than the syncros (hopeful thinking?) and the shifter is really worn and can be moved around the entire interior of the car whilst in gear!! That is my biggest squawk at this time. I downloaded a 1985 Tercel Manual and have been spending some time reading about everything but any help on the 2wd 5spd shifters will be greatly appreciated. I found an exploded view and was astonished by the number of parts involved with just the shifter on this thing!

If you want to come to Costa Rica I'll help you put together a nice week vacation and save you some money, and I'll put you up for a couple nights in exchange for parts hauling!!!

Good Times!

Bruce

[overs10ded]

We had no plans to go to costa rica but it sounds like a fun trip. Have room for a couple of guests? I can bring a suitcase full of parts as luggage.

petros, you're going to need a traveling tercel road show!

agreed with petros for most of the above. however, i want to add that the port on the vac advance that advances timing by approx 8* should go to manifold vacuum, while the port that advances about 15* should go to ported vacuum. you can and should hook these up with the weber as well as the stock carb. the first advances timing during idle and hwy cruising while the second advances timing during hwy cruising, giving better economy. since you only have one port, you should check the timing with it disconnected and plugged and then re-check the timing with it hooked up to manifold vacuum. the difference will tell you what you should hook the single line up to while you track down the proper vac advance cans. it won't hurt to run without all the vac advance stuff but you'll get slightly better economy with them.

ditto on hooking up most of the vacuum lines. just use the factory service manual (found at the top of each page here) and check each component first and verify which ones are working properly.

dlb thanks for the reply! I haven't checked at the auto parts store for the vac advance yet but am bracing myself!!!

Good times!

Bruce

[dlb]

bruce, if the shifter is sloppy it is likely the cup bushing that the large shifter ball sits in and/or the tiny bushing on the tip of the shifter. both are cheap and easy to replace. there are comparison pics of good and bad ones here.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... 682#p55679

i installed a LuK clutch kit several years ago and it's been good. no problems.

[Petros]

Rockauto.com has a sale on Tercel clutches, the Sachs clutch is pretty good (pressure plate made in Korea, T/O bearing and disk made in Japan), and the Asian one is pretty good. I think most stuff made in Japan, or the USA is decent, not sure I would trust anything else. you might consider replacing the rear seal while you have the trans out to replace the clutch.

[overs10ded]

bruce, if the shifter is sloppy it is likely the cup bushing that the large shifter ball sits in and/or the tiny bushing on the tip of the shifter. both are cheap and easy to replace. there are comparison pics of good and bad ones here.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... 682#p55679

i installed a LuK clutch kit several years ago and it's been good. no problems.

Does the AL21 2wd have a different shifter than the 4wd? I don't know that the 2wd 5spd has the ball or not? I've seen a bushing kit in aluminum and brass on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260696426922?_t ... 662wt_1185

I will just have to take it apart and go from there. I live 4 miles outside of town but I have a bike!!

Good times!

Bruce

[overs10ded]

Went to my local auto parts and they come up with a vacuum advance that is the single port model for the equivalent of $32! I guess I'll go with that being better than nothing.

Good times!

[celtglen]

Rockauto.com usually has a substantial # of Vac Advances (both models) available for right around that same price.

[dlb]

sorry bruce, i forgot yours is a 2WD. it will probably be slightly different but very similar--likely different part #s but the same style of cup and shifter end bushings.

[tercel4wdrules]

The shifter linkage is very different on the FWD version of the trans than our 4wd trans. Take a look at page MT-5 in the FSM and you'll see...

[overs10ded]

The shifter linkage is very different on the FWD version of the trans than our 4wd trans. Take a look at page MT-5 in the FSM and you'll see...

Yes I saw the exploded view of the shifter and that is where my procrastination has originated. I would sure like to hear from somebody that knows where the main wear points are...I am guessing the bushings such as the link I added earlier in the thread, but nothing like experience to become proficient!

Thanks for the info!

Good times!
Bruce

[overs10ded]

Rockauto.com usually has a substantial # of Vac Advances (both models) available for right around that same price.

Yes rockauto.com is great but by the time I get it shipped here in Costa Rica and through the import tax police I'll be paying double! I would like to get the correct advance for my engine which is 3 port, but the current one is a single port, along with that being the currently available configuration from the local parts store...and in stock!! They said the VC-360 is available by special order and I stopped asking any further about that. Here that means waiting weeks-months and paying 3 times the retail value. Best to go with what is available. Should still work better than none. Noticed a bog/hesitation from decel and light cruise and also noticed that mileage is down quite a bit which seems alarming since I'm already nursing 22+/- mpg. Only had the car a little over 3 weeks and just getting all the bugs worked out of her. Still a joy to drive. My state-side vehicle is an old S-10 Blazer (that's where I came up with overS10ded several years ago) w/supercharged V6 that gets better mileage (23+) than this and I know 30 mpg's are in her...I just have to coax them out.

I know there is not a huge following for the Tercel wagon but please know I am extremely grateful for all of everyones efforts and help here. I am one that will do the same and share info as I discover it. And also I am into this Tercel for the long haul as it is perfect for my wife and my needs as a delivery wagon and transport for our bakery business work horse and fun enough for me by exhibiting nice handling and fairly impressive performance for 1450cc's in a station wagon! And all UNDER our budget!!!

Good times YES!!

Bruce

[overs10ded]

Here is a link that shows what the FWD wagons w/5spd...AL21 looks like;

http://www.toyotapartsoverstock.com/ima ... MC8404.jpg

There is a lot of bushings to wear out in that bunch! Now to try and get some of the extreme slop out of my shifter!!

Good times!
Bruce