1983 Tercel won't fire up

[dlb]

from what you are stating even if the vac. advance has three hoses it can be used if one sub.-diaphram port is capped off.

that's correct. one of the two diaphragms has two ports, so just block the extra port.

Your opinion on if it is prudent for $100 getting a rebuilt dissy.(new cap, rotor,coil, ignitor etc) allready to go vs. transplanting the new vac. advance into a 30 year old dissy.?

i would just look at the cap and rotor and replace them if they're badly worn. the coils and igniters don't often go bad, in my experience. even if you replace the cap, rotor, and vac cans, that should still be quite a bit less than $100.

With the vac. advance inoperative would my initial timing observation of approx. 25 BTDC degrees to be expected? Just trying to figure out whether or not the dissy. is in correctly or did someone in the past tweak it so the car would run better without addressing the vac. advance issue.

if the vac cans were hooked up when you checked the timing, the reading would have been incorrect since the manifold vac line would have been sucking air through the ruptured diaphragm, thus making it a vacuum leak. i would disconnect both vac advance lines and block them, and remove the air filter housing and check all the other lines for vacuum leaks first, and then check the timing. it may indeed still need to be adjusted but you have to eliminate those leaks first to get a true reading.

[kitchman]

Hello again,
Update on what is happening, sent the Crown reman.dissy. back to Rock auto, the vac. advance only had one port at the bottom. Kept the new vac. advance with three ports and will block one of the two ports on the sub. diaphram as suggested. The one I am planning to block has a smaller orfice than the other, don't know if it matters or not? Is there some sort of reference marking on the dissy as to where the rotor should be pointing when at 0 degrees for # 1 cyl? Using the cap. seems to leave margin for error. Not sure if some one in the past repositioned the dissy. to some how compensate for the the failed vac. advance.
thanks again!!

[dlb]

hey kitch. the same link i posted before has the info on where the rotor should point when reinstalling the dizzy/resetting the timing. the rotor should be pointing to approx 10:30 but make sure the piston is on the compression stroke.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4& ... 030#p56030

following those (and assuming there are no other simultaneous issues), the car should start easily, even at 0*. you can then use a timing light to set the timing appropriately.

block the smaller port on the new vac cans.

[kitchman]

Thanks again,
AS expected the vac. advance was toast and now know almost why. Early on when I put a vac. line on the old diaphram and sucked on it I noticed there was no resistance and most of all the taste of fuel. Now with the new diaphram installed on the dissy.the car started as it did before but I noticed some excessive shaking of the propt up hood. I was going to set the timing and disconnected the vac. line to the sub. diaphram only to see that it was wet with fuel. I sucked on the vac. line and got a mouth of fuel. Tracing the vac. tube that connected to this hose I observed that near the front of the carb.there is a T junction in this pipe with a small vac. hose which goes to a srew type fitting in the front carb. base. Any thoughts as to what is allowing fuel into this vac. circuit?

[dlb]

i'm not sure of the emissions package you have but i would guess that your AAP diaphragm is leaking. it's fairly common and easy to replace. check the FSM and see if that is what you're talking about.

[kitchman]

Hi Dib,
Just went out to take a look and removed the vac. hose from the AAP. I sucked on the hose and received another petro-coctail hum! Thinking this shouldn't be?
If it is bad can it be rebuilt or has to be replaced and where can it or the kit be had?

[dlb]

there should not be fuel in the AAP vac hose. when working properly, that hose sucks on a diaphragm that supplies additional fuel when the engine is cold. if the diaphragm ruptures, the fuel leaks into the vac lines and gets into all kinds of place it shouldn't--like your mouth! i'm not sure about new ones, several others on the forum have replaced the AAP recently so hopefully one of them will comment shortly. i have personally never had one fail but i would likely replace it with one from a spare carb. i'm cheap and utilitarian that way.

[Highlander]

The AAP diaphragm can be had from the dealer, no aftermarket is available that I know of. It also comes in a carb rebuild kit. Replacing the AAP is a three screw affair once you take the air cleaner off-Just be sure to catch the spring when you pull the cover and get it back in correctly. In the meantime, you can plug the line to it and the spud that the line sits on to drive the car, it'll be a little slow and hesitant on accel, but it'll run OK.
This isn't all that unheard of, two of mine came to me with the AAP broken- its about a 5mpg loss as it sucks fuel directly into the TVSV and anything connected to that port.

[kitchman]

Thanks Highlander,
Went to napa today we found a accel. diaphram which looks like it may fit, it has a triangular bolt pattern consistant with the pumps mounting. Can return it if its wrong. Will check with the dealer locally. Thanks for the heads up on temporially blocking the lines, was thinking of doing just that

[kitchman]

This is what I learned, the diaphram from Toyota, part # 2167535510 is currently still avail. for a mere $51, please kiss me first! The part can be found elsewhere online for $31 plus s/h and you are right back to rape territory. The answere, as some one here suggested is papa Napa, part # CRB 2-4014 @$13.79. Put it in yesterday and works great! The ERG and vac piping assy. flanking the carb. needs to be loosened/repositioned, inorder to get clear access to the three screws holding the AAP to the carb.
AS noted before the Dissy. was fitted with a new vac. advance and it went back in easily in the same position as marked before removal and consistant to the rotor pointing to a 10:30 position. When I rechecked the timing with the vac. advance disconnected and lines plugged, the best reading obtained with the dissy. adjustment maxed out was approx. 10 degrees BTDC and it advancing to approx. 17 degrees with the vac. advance reconnected. Still thinking that either the dissy. needs to be repositioned by one tooth or when some one put a timing belt in the gears were not in perfect allignment. Planning on changing the H2O pump and the timing belt soon and will find out at that point what is up. Looking for a recommendation for the best choices in H2O pumps and timing belt.
Thanks all once again!!

[dlb]

great to hear, kitchman. that sounds like the right specs for the vac advance at idle. with the stock setting of 5* BTDC, the FSM says it should advance to 12* or 13* BTDC so 7* of advance would be correct. since it's set correctly, i don't think it sounds like the dissy is out a tooth. what makes you say that?

timing belts are to be done every 60k miles/100k km i believe. if the car has been sitting forever and/or you're unsure when it was last done, it is probably a good idea to do it. i don't have any brand recommendations though, sorry.

congrats on getting it running!

[kitchman]

Hi Dib,
I say this because at the present even if I wanted to get the initial timing to 5 degrees BTDC I couldn't. The dissy. is presently turned all the way it can go without egging out the guide to get more movement of the dissy.. I don't think it should be this way? Also some times when the ign. is shut off the engine diesels a bit.

[rer233]

had a similar problem with my first tercel wagon shortly after i bought it (back in '94.) engine was down on power, so i checked the timing. could ALMOST get it right by turning the dist to the stop so i pulled the dizzy, moved it one tooth and checked it again- could ALMOST get it right, but not quite. after fiddling with the dizzy for i can't remember how long, i checked the cam timing- one tooth advanced! previous owner had replaced the timing belt. actually, i thought it was pretty cool that toyota made cam timing idiot proof- if the cam timing's off, you can't set the spark timing right. bty- that engine's still running today in my work beater. good luck, and let us know how it works out.

[Petros]

That can be either the timing belt off one tooth, or the distributor off a tooth. Easiest to check the timing belt, remove the upper cover (you have to remove the 3 ten mm bolts holding on the water pump pulley). You can check the belt timing by setting the lower pulley at TDC and see if the cam sprocket with the alignment hole lines up with the mark on the front of the head behind the sprocket. It is an easy check, you can also fix the timing belt position without having to remove the lower pulley, just loosen the tensioner, slip the belt off and reposition it. Turn the crank through two revolutions to double check the timing belt position.

IF the timing belt is correct, that the distributor is off a tooth. you have to remove it and reposition the rotor so it points at the number one spark plug terminal in the dist cap. Than reset the timing.

[kitchman]

Thanks again everyone!
Planning some time soon changing both the H20 pump and timing belt. Will report back with the findings.