1983 Tercel won't fire up

[kitchman]

Hello all, new here and have received no input from TN.
This 83 tercel with I believe a 4A3 engine has been in storage for the last 10yrs.. Initially it started right up with the use of starting fluid. Did this 3 times, each time it would fire up only to shut down after using up the vapors. The next time I hopped into the car and tried to give it fuel to keep it running but it only ran rough and shortly stalled, never to fire up again, even with starting fluid. The carb. looked wet and the gas smelled funky. The tank was emptied, lines drained, filter changed and and fresh fuel added. All plugs were inspected and appeared dry and all sparked well. Starting fluid was even injected directly into the cylinders and still not a pop. Thinking that some how the timing got compromised or the belt suddenly broke? Is this engine an interrupt type? What is the range for compression for this engine
Thank you in advance

[arbskynxnex]

Stock motor will be a 3A or 3A-C variant. 4A-C and 4A-LC are pretty much direct drop ins from corollas. Non-interference motor as I recall.

If you're trying to start with the carb, pump the gas pedal twice, that sets the choke. I would clean the carb out with carb cleaner. Unless you drained it, you're going to have the old nasty fuel still in there. It could have plugged somewhere. Also check your fuel cut solenoids. The FSM has how to check them, basically unplug the wiring harness to them, one has two wires, hook one to positive and one to ground on your battery and it should click, the other one has one wire, positive to that, ground to the solenoid body, should click too. If no clicky, you need some new one. Might just find a whole carb at the junkyard while you're at it and swap it out they aren't very expensive, just make sure the choke heater is good on it. (bring a multimeter)

The top cover for the timing belt comes off pretty easy, or you can pull the valve cover and see the timing belt from there.

Not to suggest the too obvious, but did you get the plug wires installed in the proper sequence? Though I would think that if that or the timing belt were the problem, it would start and just run like a pile of poo.

[danzo]

First step is to find out what your engine is not getting - spark, compression or fuel. You can prolly rule out fuel if it won't start on carb/starting fluid. Very easy to check for comp using a gauge or looking at the timing belt; most likely it is still intact. Anything north of 100 or so compression is enough to run.

You probably have developed a no spark problem, which is not too uncommon with these cars after so many years. Fortunately this is easy to check -just pull off a plug wire, stick a screwdriver in it, and place the shaft of the screwdriver within an eigth of an inch of one of the valve cover bolts (close to ground). When a friend cranks the engine you should see a spark from the screwdriver to ground, if not you know you have an ignition issue. You can also check for spark with a timing light.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

[Petros]

Welcome to the list!

good advice above, check for spark, compression and fuel supply. I have bought many old tercels that have not run for years, here is what I have found bad. Seals, thermostats (for some reason when they sit for a long time they fail), fuel supply lines up stream of the fuel pump gets cracks and sucks air, so no fuel to carb., after the pump they leak. Timing belt gets old and brittle and can fail after just a few seconds of running. easy to pull off upper timing cover to check belt. Valves will clear pistons, so there should be no internal damage.

Also sometimes the diaphragm in the fuel pump can get brittle and fail after running for a few seconds, same with diaphragms in the carb, and needle valve in float chamber. Once you get it to run, watch out for bad oil leaks from dried out main seals, valve cover gasket, etc. Same for seal in water pump. You might want to flush engine good if there is rust in the coolant.

Actually most of the rubber hoses seem to hold up quite well, but if any are original, especially the heat hoses and top rad hose, better replace them or you could do a lot of damage to the engine.

Sounds like a good find, how many miles on it? Did you get it cheap? Good for you for rescuing it, I have saved 4 from the crusher.

Good luck.

[kitchman]

Thanks for the replies!
As stated there is spark and the engine did fire initially with starting fluid. The plugs were pulled and were dry and tested good. The car was given to me with 120,000 miles. My thoughts are that the timing belt either sliped or broke, because it has spark and won't even firer with starting fluid as it did before. Any photos of the upper timing cover or description of what fastners need be adressed to remove it to check the belt.
Thank you again

[arbskynxnex]

If you go to tercel4wd.com the main site page, there is a pdf and html version of the fsm.

[kitchman]

Thanks alot for that great heads up on the fsm!!!

[kitchman]

Hello again,
First I stand corrected, the engine is a 3-AC type. Looking at the fsm it appears that the 11A drive gear at the back side of the cam shaft drives the distributor, if this correct a broken timing belt would prevent distributor opperation and I would not be able to observe intermittent sparking at the plugs?
Thanks once again

[4wdchico]

Hello again,
First I stand corrected, the engine is a 3-AC type. Looking at the fsm it appears that the 11A drive gear at the back side of the cam shaft drives the distributor, if this correct a broken timing belt would prevent distributor opperation and I would not be able to observe intermittent sparking at the plugs?
Thanks once again

Welcome. I'd just take off the distributor cap and see if the rotor turns when you crank the starter, that or pull off the upper timing cover as Petros suggested. Lots of things other than a broken timing belt might also cause a no spark situation.

[kitchman]

Thanks for the response, but as I have been reporting there is spark. My last message was to establish wether or not the cam drives the distributor?

[takza]

Dist runs off the cam...so you have a t-belt...but it might have skipped a tooth or two?

[kitchman]

Thank you Takza,
The next time I go to where the car is, the valve cover will be removed and the upper t-belt cover for a look-see.

[kitchman]

Really Sorry for not finnishing the story!!
It was the carb. which after removing the top horn and throughly cleaning and blowing out everything it started right up.
At this time after not liking 24 mpg the timing was checked and it was approx 25 degrees BTDC. The most I could advance it was 15-17 degees(max. dissy. rotation). Ultimately discovered that the vac. advance on the dissy. was inopperative and now waiting on a reman. dissy from Rock. Does any one know what the opperational differences are between Dissys. with two hoses to the dissy. sub-diaphram and those that have only one(mine). Can a dissy. with two hoses to the sub-diaphram be used as a subsitute for the one hose type if one of the ports on the two type is blocked?

[dlb]

hey kitchman. not entirely clear on what you're asking but i think i have an idea.

first, neither vac advance lines that run off the dizzy are necessary. they can both be blocked while you wait for new vac advance cans. you might notice slightly worse mileage because your timing is then being vac advanced during idle and hwy cruising but many here have run without them for extended periods and not noticed much, if any difference in mileage. that being said, you should still be getting better than 24 mpg, especially in a 2wd hatchback. block any vacuum leaks and if the timing is still way off, pull the dizzy out, retard it a tooth by turning the rotor clockwise, and then set the timing to 5* BTDC with the middle vac can disconnected and plugged.

next, you can check to see if just one or both vac can diaphragms are broken by sucking on the vac hose that goes to each one. there are two separate diaphragms so often one will still work and one is better than none.

it sounds like your dizzy has two ports on the vac cans. in that case, the upper port should be connected to manifold vacuum via the 1-, 2-, or 3-pronged thing located near the front of the intake manifold, and the lower port should be connected to ported vacuum on the carb. take a look at the vacuum diagrams in the FSM for clarification. do not mix the two vac lines up or it will advance incorrectly--the upper port supplies only approx 8* of advance at idle and hwy cruising while the lower port supplies approx 13* of advance at hwy cruising. if the vac cans you get have three ports, just block the third port. it is for an emissions control that your car does not have.

it is not necessary to replace the entire distributor to replace the vac cans. they are attached to the dizzy via a single screw and an arm with a hole that sits in a peg so they are easy to swap. you just need to remove your dizzy from the head to do this.

here are instructions for removing/installing the dizzy:

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4& ... 030#p56030

[kitchman]

Great response, thank you much! Both cans are shot, when sucked on no resistance is experienced just a sort of petro tasting air. When blowing into it you can here air purging out of the inside of the dissy. I ordered a wholesale closeout reman. Dissy. from Rock Auto @ approx. $100 (no photo avail.) Also ordered a wholesale closeout vac. advance for $10 no photo avail, so not sure if it is a two or three hose type. I can return either one, from what you are stating even if the vac. advance has three hoses it can be used if one sub.-diaphram port is capped off. Your opinion on if it is prudent for $100 getting a rebuilt dissy.(new cap, rotor,coil, ignitor etc) allready to go vs. transplanting the new vac. advance into a 30 year old dissy.?
Thank you once again
PS: With the vac. advance inoperative would my initial timing observation of approx. 25 BTDC degrees to be expected? Just trying to figure out whether or not the dissy. is in correctly or did someone in the past tweak it so the car would run better without addressing the vac. advance issue.