Car died, and now won't start

Lil Beast · Post by **Lil Beast** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:54 pm

Permatex ultra copper is the goop I used! Gold stuff, copper reinforced! You would apply on the surface between the engine, heatshield and the pump! Here's a pic of my old pump you can see the old goop, broken gasket!

gooppump.jpg

Like you can see both were used gasket and goop, personally its one or the other!

And to test your spark what you described is pretty much what you have to do! When I have to do these test alone sometime I rig a dwell meter with tach and all the wiring necessery to control the engine from the hood! For the spark I would just lay the spark plug on the head of engine with the plug touching the bolt and go in the car to crank while looking thru the windshield where the plug is to see if sparks! ( Dunno how to explain better lol)

serpentaria · Post by **serpentaria** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:27 pm

Just go the new pump from Autozone. There are these two spacers, one is thicker and plastic, and the other one is much much thinner. They go around the lever arm where and the bolts go through them.

Question: Which spacer is touching the pump first? The thin black one, or the white plastic thicker spacer?
Question: Where does the Silicone go? Does it go in between the block and the spacer? What about that big metal think that was attached to the old pump, between the pump and the block.

Maybe if I upload pictures, it will be better...

serpentaria · Post by **serpentaria** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:38 pm

The old pump:

OLD.jpg

The new pump:

NEW.jpg

I'm guessing that that big black plastic (I thought @ first it was metal) thing from the old pump is the gasket? And for the new pump, I just use those two spacers.

Where does the goop go?

Also, I am having a really hard time moving the lever on the new pump. Should I use some WD-40. I've put quite a bit of force on it, and it doesn't seem to want to move @ all...

serpentaria · Post by **serpentaria** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:40 pm

Apologies Lil Beast. I didn't see your above post. Thanks for the info!

serpentaria · Post by **serpentaria** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:54 pm

So the big black plastic piece is the heat shield, and the thin spacer is the gasket then? Do I use that white plastic spacer which came with the new pump?
Thanks again for helping this noob out...

Lil Beast · Post by **Lil Beast** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:29 pm

Yes I would put the white spacer touching the engine then the heat shield and then the pump put a bead of goop between each pieces and barely tight them just to make sure contact is being made everywhere! Wait 2-3 hours at least before tightening(the best is 24hour to fully cure)! Do not put WD40 the engine is stronger than you and will lube everything for you! Normal new pump for being harder of a play!
WD40 is not a lubricant its the reverse mostly! It will break down the old grease and oil that is thick and makes it hard to unscrew! A BIG mistake a lot do!

splatterdog · Post by **splatterdog** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:25 pm

Use just the original spacer/heatshield, unless it's cracked or otherwise damaged. Apply sealant to both sides sparingly over the old bonded on gaskets.

The white ones are used when the stock one is bad. They don't shield any heat, and that shield also would deflect fuel/oil away from the exh manifold in the case of pump failure.

larry mcgrath · Post by **larry mcgrath** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:58 pm

If you look on page (fu 32) in the factory service manual,you will see two holes along side of the arm,these are the bolt holes that secure the fuel pump to the cylinder head. The gasket is between the pump and the cylinder head. Good Luck Larry.

serpentaria · Post by **serpentaria** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:33 pm

Wow, so I replaced the fuel pump with the new one. It had the old gaskets on the heat shield, and they both intact, so I just went ahead and used the old gaskets. Got myself some of the Permatex Copper goop and applied it to the gaskets. Waited a little while for it to set, and then tightened the bolts.

And then, when I went to try to start her up, the #(@(ing car wouldn't even crank.

Any ideas?

serpentaria · Post by **serpentaria** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:34 pm

UPDATE: SO i had just knocked a wire lose during the install and it cranks now.

But it still will not start!

As I was turning the ignitions, the cranking started out real strong, but as I kept cranking it the began to dissipate power. Is this a sign of anything? Is it time to get a new distributor? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Post by **dlb** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:45 pm

your battery is dead from too much cranking and not enough running (the alternator charges the battery while the engine runs). if you've been cranking it like crazy lately while working on this, it probably just needs to be charged but if you haven't been cranking a whole lot, it's a sign the battery may be on its last legs and be due for replacement.

if the battery has removable tops on it, clean the top of it really well and then pop the tops off. there will be a bunch of holes with fluid in them. the fluid should be about 1/2" from the top of the hole. if the fluid level is low, this is part of the problem--fill each one to 1/2" from the top with distilled water. you'll still need to charge your battery but at least now it will hold more of a charge.

taking a guess that the problem was the fuel pump isn't a good way to go about it. ideally you want to problem solve and test stuff to figure out the most likely causes so you don't waste money on parts you don't need. i know it's frustrating when you're not sure where to look but i think there have been some good suggestions here that you just need to follow up on. it takes time and there's a learning curve but i think it's worth it.

serpentaria · Post by **serpentaria** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:22 pm

There have been really good suggestions, but I am not a mechanic. I don't even have much space to work on the thing because it is parked on the street and someone is usually paralleled right in front, really close. I BARELY have the proper tools.

I am just losing a lot of patience with this thing, about to junk it. It's just not worth the stress. Anything is easy when you know what you're doing.

Took the timing belt cover off, and checked the integrity of the belt. Looked fine. (although I'm not really sure what I am looking for there. What would be a sign that it needs to be replaced?)
Replaced the fuel pump with a new one, so we can cancel that out.
So according to the suggestion by everyone in this forum, it has to be the distributor, right?

It seems that most of the people that own these cars are mechanics, or at least have a good working knowledge. I'm realizing that I wasn't being really sensible buying this car because it is so fickle, and requires constant maintenance. It is kind of a mechanic's car. Wouldn't you say? I can't take it to an outside mechanic because they'd charge me a stupid amount of money, and plus I'd have to get it towed on top of that.

So you see the pickle I am in.

Thanks for your batter water suggestions. I'm going to go check that out now.

I'm hoping that my friend comes tonight and is able to help me check the spark, then we'll know for sure it is the distributor.

And DLB, thanks for looking out for my money

but it was $30 bucks, and although it was a gamble, at least I have a new fuel pump, which will probably make this thing run better, when/if it does gets going again. (plus the old one was riddled with oil)

splatterdog · Post by **splatterdog** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:29 pm

Adjustable spark tester. http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... word=50850

For our ignition system I would run the screw out about 1/3 the way, maybe just a touch more. Most of the way out for current ignitions. About a 1/4 inch for small engines.

Lil Beast · Post by **Lil Beast** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:54 pm

When you get some charge on the battery! Disconnect the line that goes from the pump to carb at the carb put it in a bottle crank the engine for few seconds(maybe 10) and go look in the bottle to see if gas is reaching! Although you have a new pump, the line or filter could be obstructed! Sometime in case of running out gas it can take about 20-30 second of cranking before filling the carb! Most likely the case as you change pump line are empty! Maybe your battery died before it could start! If gas reaches, next look for sparks, if doesn't spark something in the ignition is wrong! Look for Mortoy thread he had distributor problem and it's described there! If a nice strong spark occur it's something else! Probably back to the carb but let me know how it goes before!
Good Luck!

serpentaria · Post by **serpentaria** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:10 pm

So, a friend of mine came over to crank the car while I checked the plugs.
There was no spark

So, at this point, it must be the distributor? I did just replace the spark plugs and the spark plug wires about 2 months ago, so I am guessing that it's neither of those.

What is the best way to go about getting a refurbished distributor? How easy is the installation? Should I take the old one out first and check it, or can we assume that it's completely dead?

Thanks again for all the help!

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Car died, and now won't start

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Re: Car died, and now won't start

Re: Car died, and now won't start

Re: Car died, and now won't start

Re: Car died, and now won't start

Re: Car died, and now won't start

Re: Car died, and now won't start

Re: Car died, and now won't start

Re: Car died, and now won't start

Re: Car died, and now won't start

Re: Car died, and now won't start