a whole different wagon

[Shaggymoon]

One thing to remember. When you get the 4age in there and you close the hood for your first drive... the hood won't close. The front most part of the TVIS will be in the way. With a 1 inch subframe drop, you will need to do a "speed bump" as i did to my hood. look close at the white line between the orange and red and you can see where it is. The hood will clear with a 2 inch drop but that would require welding up new swing arm mounting points and elongating the steering column. John Lewis at Garage Zero spent hours trying to put a lift under the steering rack to minimize bump steer, but it was futile. If you are willing to cut a hole in your hood and put some kind of cowl induction like hump, that would work. I recommend 1 inch and a speed bump.

I used a hammer and a chunk of leather on the inside of the hood to slowly and carefully beat out the bump. I place the hood on a few bags of sand, one has to be right under the bump or you will just be flexing the whole hood.

[andrewrenow]

Very nice! A fuel injected motor in one of these cars would be amazing. If mine were fuel injected I would drive it everyday. It sucks that I live in California with all the smog regulations.

[Petros]

had a chance to check out what the fuel economy is with the EFI engine?

I considered various way not to have to alter the hood, but none are as easy. I was thinking the same thing you did, drop cross member about 1/2", shave mounts to drop a bit more, take more off of right mount than left to rotate engine a bit (to lower the intake manifold side), and than just tweak the hood enough to get it to clear.

I was thinking of either a small bump like you have, or even bowing the whole hood at the center enough to clear. May not be noticeable if done carefully.

[Shaggymoon]

the smog would not be difficult, just have whatever a GTS corolla would have in Cali and it would pass.

as per the engine height, I have a full 1 inch drop. I am seriously looking to have a 4x4 fab buddy of mine make me some 2 inch lower mounts for the rear control arm, do a full 2 inch drop and call it done. I really like ground clearance. This engine in stock trim can spin even my taller tires no problem. The GTS drifters put very wide tires on there cars, but when they put a turbo on the 4AGE, the stand no chance either.

The tire spin is compounded with the fact that rough intersections in ATL and my stiff front/soft rear suspension make for me skipping through turns. still looking to firm up the rear. I did the Barto Lift, but used V6 Camry springs up front by mistake. It rides great on the hwy but the difference between front and rear makes for twitchy steering. The car "sets" in the turns. This is an issue when u are just trying to change lanes and the car does a full weight shift to the back corner.

[andrewrenow]

im still drolling about this build! i want! i want! i want!

[Shaggymoon]

finally got the electric fan to do its job and the engine computer is idling better now. It still likes to sit at just over 1k and slowly climb. The engine just doesn't like to warm up. If it is not over 70 outside it will stay at the Cold line after a 30 min drive of hwy and city streets. But i got 25 mpg last two tanks. I try to drive it gently but i just can't help but rev it to 7 every now and then. 4 grand is where the engine likes to cruise and with the standard gears i am just over 3k at hwy speed. I think my rear axle is vibrating from 67 to 73 mph or so. Anyway, daily driving it and having a blast. It sure gets looks from people who know older performance cars, it is impossible to mistake the engine noise for a fart tip exhaust.

[Shaggymoon]

I just drove from Atlanta to Wake Forest NC yesterday (393 miles). it did great. I was running 75 the whole way and got 28 mpg at one stop and a bit over 30 on another. my tank is not original and doesn't like to fill so "full" is a moving number.

BUT today I drove it to lunch and on my return trip it would not come out of 2nd. I am in class right now with the car park outside still in second. The shift lever will not move. The clutch still works fine. Any chance i can get it to work right so i can drive back home on Monday morning?

UPDATE. I don't know what your view is on God and prayer, but I had many friends praying, and I was praying also, that God would simply unstick the trans. After a few hours of sweating in 102 F temp. getting nothing done, I lined up a rental car and a place to park the wagon. On the way to my friend's house stuck in 2nd gear I was trying to push it out with no avail, then it just fell out. So now I have all 5 gears and can drive the 393 miles back home tomorrow after church. I for one give the Glory to God.

[Petros]

Wow, fixed itself with the help of divine intervention. I had this problem on my car a number of years ago, I never did get it out of 2nd, I drove home 40 plus miles in 2nd, with lots of bad noises coming from the trans. Pulled the oil plug once at home and lots of metal shavings came out of the trans. I ended up replacing it.

I suspect the cause is a very worn internal shift linkage/shift forks. If it happened once, and it happened to pop-free, it does not mean it can not happen again. I would put fresh gear oil in it, make sure it is topped up, and than drive it very gently. And start looking for a replacement trans right away.

IT may last a lot longer, but it could completely fail at any time. The parts are worn, and will keep wearing as you drive it. Best be ready for the inevitable that is going to happen sometime in the near future.

[Shaggymoon]

Thanks for the sound advice. I have a spare trans waiting to be called up from the minor leagues. I will change the fluid and check for the metal confetti. When having all the work done to get a 4ag mated to the trans I knew that the whole drivetrain would be unhappy with 100 horses at 7500 rpm. I am toying with the idea of using the 5 speed from a celica (same as the ones in the 86 trucks) but that would be much fab work just to make rear wheel drive work, not to mention heavy. I just keep driving it as is dreaming that it was all time rear instead of front.

[Petros]

if you are going to go to the trouble of installing the celica trans, why not also shoe horn in the 22re engine too?

[Shaggymoon]

That is a very wise statement. The 4age has a cool factor due to its ties with Toyota and the tuner scene, but the 22r has gobs of torque in comparison not to mention all of its WRC history in the celica. I also have talked with a friend who got his hands on the supercharger from a Previa van, it would be a step or two up from the stock one on the 4agze and it has a clutch system allowing it to be turned on and off (makes me think of Mad Max and his switch controlled blower). but if I was to shove a better trans and engine in and much fit ment was required then why not be crazy and slap a Chevy 4.3 in there? The toy truck guys do that swap often and ya get 200 Hp, 250 lbs and near same gas mileage from it.

The 4age is happy to run past 7k rpm and makes you work for the power band, a total different experience from the 3ac and 22r torque engines. all this talk is not nearly as big an issue as my current battle with alignment and camber. I have killed a new right front tire in less that 10k and the cars understanding of straight changes from throttle on to off. I no doubt need bushings and I would guess the front sway bar is worn down where it meets the suspension arm. Petros you mentioned issues with controlling engine forces with the highly tuned 3ac, did you come up with any ideas? I really would like a real A arm set up.

[larry mcgrath]

your right about driveing this moer for the power band,my v20 b/t revs 8k no problem,rt ft tire is showing a lot of wear (from my lead foot ) checked milage yesterday 35.3 trying to stay under 70mph lots of fun to drive,great to drive to coffee in the morning . mine runs on the cool side also

[Petros]

I would love to design a decent front suspention for this car, get rid of the large squishy rubber donuts used to locate the front wheel (always a bad idea), it is is hardly wroth the cost and effort for such a limited market on such an old car. So for now we are stuck with what we can buy and bolt onto the car.

What you can do, and what I will likely do on mine, is buy some eurethane sway bar to lower arm bushings, and than just keep the rest of the parts in good repair. There are some decent TRD bushings that should fit the rear trailing arms and the panhard rod, but other than finding some stiffer springs and shocks, that is about all that I would try.

There are some nylon ball and cup type bushings to replace a similar rubber doughnut bushings used on RWD ford trucks and vans. I have used them before when we had a one-ton ford van, it was uncontrollable when fully loaded at freeway speeds, I installed the aftermarket replacement nylon ball and cut bushings (only about $14 a side as i recall) and it made a big difference. I was thinking it might be possible to adapt these nylon bushings to work on our sway bar bushings, but I have not looked into it yet.

The MR2 suspention uses a similar bushing on both the front and rear suspention, it seems someone should make a part like that to upgrade the MR2 suspention, if so it might bolt right into our front suspension. But I have not found any yet.

As far as putting in a v8, there is no way you will get 35 mpg with a v8 in a tgercel, and there is no way it will weigh less than a 4age. Beside both the 4age and the 20/22r engine is all toyota, I would not want to mess up a good toyota by putting an engine deisgned and made in Detroit. that would be sacralige.

[rer233]

chevy 4.3 is a v6 (not that it really matters- still wouldn't do it!)