Slamming the rear tire into the curb

[xirdneh]

A few years ago I bought a Tercel with its rear axle shifted over about 5 inches. The previous owner slid sdeways into a ditch and the force of impact on the tire caused the bar that connects to the frame and then to the axle (i do not know what its called) to bend severely. i took that bar off and replaced it with a spare i had.
my brother bought the car.
a month ago he slid on ice and slammed the tire against the curb. This time the bar did not bend
instead it bent the mount on the frame and bent the axle
his passenger side wheel is wobbling badly
he had the alloy rims so i doubt the rim is bent, i am sure it would break rather than bend
so i will provide him with another axle shaft
hopefully we can get the frame mount bent back into place without breaking the weld or whatever its form of attachment is
can't believe this happenend twice to the same car
never seen this before

[dlb]

i think that bar is called both the panhard arm and lateral control rod. you're talking about the big one that mounts at the back of the rear axle, and goes from the top right down to left, correct? it keeps the rear axle from sliding from side to side. i've never played with one but just looking at it, it appears that raising or lowering the back end will cause the rear axle to rest slightly off-center since the panhard arm does not telescope. that is, when you raise the rear end the panhard arm will pull the axle to the right and if you lower the rear end it will push the axle to the left.

[simon84]

David,
I think you may have your rod and your arm mixed up. Insert gutter humour phallic inuendo here!
I would call it a panhard rod or lateral control arm bit that's nitpicking isn't it.
But seriously...
I had to reattach my panhard rod to the frame after it got too rusted and busted off from driving over a local bumpy railroad crossing.
I ground away some rust and inserted a piece of thick sheet metal and did some welding and it has held up pretty good. SO I'd say that Xirdneh could probably fix that depending on how much things are bent up.
And on another note...
The sideways motion you describe with the movement of the panhard rod is probably really minor but it makes me think that if you hit a bump on icy roads it could make your back end shimmy and that could lead to skidmarks. Insert low brow butt humour here!

[dlb]

you dirty sailor! i can hear your horrible, base jokes now.

and check it out on page 554 of the manual: lateral control rod, you know-it-all! i don't think it matters though, anyone who has an idea of what you're talking about will know what you mean regardless. i might just call it a panhard control stick to prove that point.

yeah, i think you and i talked about the shifting of the rear axle due to the panhard control stick (see how i did that?) last time we chilled. it would be a very tiny amount, but weird nonetheless. thinking about it more now, if the rear end of the car was bouncing quite hard, the axle would stay in place relative to the ground and the body would bounce up and down in a slightly diagonal way because of the arm, wouldn't it? really weird. doesn't seem like the best design for holding the axle in place laterally. i'm hoping peter pipes up here to explain the logic behind it or clear up my misconception of how it works.

[Highlander]

That's what the trailing arms are for, to hold the rear axle from moving (much) side to side as the car's body goes up and down relative to the axle. The panhard rod also reduces the oversteer of the car caused by the side to side motion of the axle during cornering.
My Sprites are a great example of this- they both have 1/4 elliptical springs (attached to the frame at front and end at the axle housing). The '62 has a panhard rod and has a very neutral feel to the steering, the '58 has no panhard rod and oversteers like no tomorrow (really fun to drive!). That's due to the 1/4 elliptic springs allowing sway from side to side of the axle housing. BTW they both have the same full race springs front and rear.
The tercels have trailing arms on both sides that limit the sway of the axle housing.
Xirdneh,, If you replace the panhard rod, do take a very close look at the attachment points for the trailing arms, I'll bet there is some damage there as well. If you need a housing, I've got one sitting and ready to go to the recycler, but in fine shape- no pumpkin though.

[Petros]

In a lateral impact on the rear axle will take it in the Panhard rod and its mounts. Easier to fix than replacing rear axles, leaf springs or other means of laterally locating the rear axle (non of which are worth a darn AFAIAC). If it is not independant rear axle, than let be located with a Panhard rod. For some reason in hot rod circles it is called a "track rod" (perhaps they have an aversion to honoring the Frenchman that invented it).

I prefer to call it the Panhard rod to honor the Frenchman, Rene Panhard, who invented it sometime between 1895-1903. He is also the inventor of the modern transmission, before the gear transmission cars used chains and sprockets like bicycles.

Not much of value has come from France in more modern times, but we should still honor the individual inventor.

[ARCHINSTL]

I prefer to call it the Panhard rod to honor the Frenchman, Rene Panhard, who invented it sometime between 1895-1903. He is also the inventor of the modern transmission, before the gear transmission cars used chains and sprockets like bicycles.

Panhard was also the first to use a clutch behind the engine. The company made some very interesting upper-end cars before WWII, but afterwards concentrated on lightweight and very innovative cars.

Not much of value has come from France in more modern times, but we should still honor the individual inventor.

LOVE IT - LOVE IT - LOVE IT ! ! !
I had to work on those POS French bicycles in the '70s. Their tech credo was "If you have a choice between metal or plastic in making something - 'Let's use plastic!'"
Joyfully, they were blown away by the Japanese, who made bicycles (and more importantly, components) that worked and could be fixed - and were more user-friendly. The same thing happened to the Italian bike industry, although to a lesser scale. Unfortunately, the BritBikes suffered as well.
Gee - did the same thing happen to French cars in North America as well? Gee, what a shame!
Tom M.

P.S. To give an illustration of French bicycle tech thinking..."The rest of the world uses a standard threading on components? Pah!!! We will have our own standard! We know better!" Oh, and while we are at it, let's do the threading in the crank area so the right side bearing unscrews and requires attention - we know better!" To be honest, the Italians followed the same crank idiocy, but used "rest of the world" threading.

[Petros]

consider that early on in the industrial revolution, France was a major contributor in all areas of science, medicine, automotive, aircraft (many early advances in aeronautical science came out of France), the arts, architecture, etc. But there is almost nothing of value that has come out of France since they embraced socialism after ww2. (even their wine making has become somewhat mediocre). Although the people of France are usually as polite and courteous as you will find, it is just a shame they have lost their early cultural and scientific edge to peruse the mythical social utopian paradise.

[danzo]

Although the people of France are usually as polite and courteous as you will find,

I concur with the other French comments, but I have to disagree here, as they have a reputation for rudeness esp towards Americans. My sister studied in France for a year while in college. Her French classmates agreed that their teachers made it tougher on the non French as a first language students. She would call us in tears at times, and this is someone who holds a black belt. She was frequently left at the bustop purposely, and the icing on the cake was when her backpack full of an entire semester's worth of work was stolen. I could do without the French and for good reasons.

[ARCHINSTL]

Socialism has nothing to do with it: France lost its (true) early-on technical edge after WWI.

Many of its mechanical contrivances after that war - and the subsequent one - were simply that: Contrivances with novelties for the sake of novelty and the arrogant confidence that they were correct and the rest of the world was completely and irreversibly wrong-wrong-wrong.
It's possible its edge was lost after WWI because of its massive manpower losses - but then, Germany lost even more manpower and look at its technical advances prior to WWII compared to French planes, tanks, and ships - (NOT being an apologist for the Nazi horror!).
How about the positioning folly of the Maginot Line? "Oh, heck, the Boche will never think of going around it!"

The French were - and are - classic examples of "If we didn't invent it - it ain't no good."

And I totally agree with danzo's comment, albeit not from personal experience, but that of daughters' and friends' anecdotes. They said most of the rest of France was not as rude, and some areas were even nice, but Parisians set the standard for being rude and arrogant - even when the dumb américains attempted to be polite and speak French instead of English.
Tom M.

[Petros]

I agree with both of you, there are many rude and anti-Amearican people in France, as in the rest of Europe. But you are talking about those that see themselves as "sophisticated Europeans". The so-called educated Europeans, big city types (and Paris is about the only big city in France). You get the same arrogant snobby disdain from New Yorkers, those in Washington DC, etc.

Somehow it is a sign of "sophistication" to be rude and anti-American, no matter where you live. My daughter spent six months in Spain, the "educated" males were all arrogant snobs (she really hated them), but the people in the small towns and most of the women she met were nice. Something I found when I visited relatives in Greece (as if Greece looks so smart now). I have little tolerance for such fools, occasionally I meet such types in Seattle, they think because I choose to live a small rural town I must be some kind of ignorant hick. I was born near Boston MA, grew up and educated in the Los Angeles area, and I think those living there are the ignorant fools. Rarely do any have any original thoughts or ideas based on actual facts. I think big city types just get that way because so many live crammed together in one place. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who warned about the mentality of big city dwellers, like they have in Europe. Living in big cities make people unable to think for themselves, like how many on this list know of people that can work on their own cars that live in big cities? That makes them smarter? Once the power was out for a few days when I lived in a big city, and I never heard so much helpless whining. They have become socially, physically and emotionally dependent on their cities.

Enough of this O/T thread jack rant.

[dlb]

haha, not enough yet, peter! MY turn.

i totally agree with peter's last comment and feel that, in general, most countries are pretty even as far as being kind and considerate. i have always found that it is in the cities--and cities all over the world--where i run into most rude people. i believe it has to do with the claustrophobia, being overwhelmed by people constantly, and the hectic lifestyle associated with most cities: traffic jams, violence, crowded public transit, etc. as an example, i had never spent much time in the US until a few years ago and always believed the stereotype of americans being rude and pushy. once my wife and i spent 3 weeks road tripping through many small towns and cities though, i found that people were very friendly and helpful--pretty much the same as they are on vancouver island. that was actually very eye-opening. OTOH, while in various major cities throughout canada, the US, and europe, i have found most people to extremely short and/or rude.

then again, where we are born and raised will affect our social expectations of others. i'm born and raised in a small town so i think i'm at an extreme end of the scale where i have high expectations of friendliness from people. that's alright though, i'd rather be friendly than surly any day.