New to Tercel world. Tranny question.

[e.acartier]

Hi my name is Eric. I live in Bellemont Az near flagstaff. I have been trolling this website for almost a year now and am seriously considering a Tercel. I Had a 1986 Toyota MR2 that I recently got rid of to make room for a new car. A tercel is high on the list of possible candidates. I have test driven one and the only thing that makes me hesitate slightly is the gutless lack of power and the (relatively speaking) poor fuel economy. My MR2 with a couple small mods got me in the region of 34-35mgp winter and up to 37-39mpg summer (@65mph). However the option of 4wd and four doors appeals to me.
Unfortunately I did not sieze the oppurtunity to snap up the one I test drove, and have been waiting for the next candidate to come along. http://flagstaff.craigslist.org/cto/2827755633.html This oppurtunity crossed my way a couple weeks ago and I overlooked it until recently when I had the necessary funds again. You'll notice he lists it as being only a 4 speed. I talked with the gentleman jon today and he says it does indeed have 4wd with the extra low 4wd only gear, however when he drives it he cannot find 5th gear. From what I gathered in my conversation with him hes worked as a semi independent car mechanic for 40 years, and thinks it could be a pin the worked its way out and would necesitate splitting the case open to reattach a shifter fork? I was also sorta concerned when he told me about how the crankshaft gear was missing some teeth when he got it and had to repace the crankshaft gear. I am looking for opinions any of you may have to the situation of the crankshaft gear and transmission. Car has 200k on it.
He seems to be willing to do 1400 cash. I just want to get your expert opinions before I decide to make the 2hour drive to check this thing out.

[dlb]

personally, i think it's far overpriced for the rust and transmission issues. taking the trans apart is a big job, and you can't get these transmissions new anymore. worst case scenario, you would need to find a good used trans and put that in and that in itself is a fairly large job.

even if the rest of the car was in really good working order, i wouldn't pay more than $500. maybe there are not as many T4's down in your area though.

that's some excellent mileage you got with your MR2! what mileage did you get before the mods, and what did you do to tweak it?

[e.acartier]

It got 32-34 mpg when I first got it. That was with in town +highway driving @ 70pmh. Nothing huge in the way of mods. Keeping my maximum speed down to 65mph. Switching to a synthetic gear oil made the biggest difference (measured 4% increase in efficiency) Changed the spark plugs to NGK laser platainums and kept a close an eye on my air filter. I always ran full synthetic engine oil. It was a cool car. Rather small though. I always hated that i couldn't take a back dirt road too.

Ive got up to 2 grandish to buy a new daily driver with and I would love another toyota. The engineering is just so common sense obvious. I would love for that to be a tercel. I just wish they had a little higher power output. Somewhere in the range of 100hp.

[LittleRed4wd]

I can't say I know too much about the transmissions on these cars, but I have heard of a few cases where 5th gear stops working-- as far as I know everything else in the tranny would work and drive just fine but without 5th, but like DLB said, worst case to fix it is that you'd have to find a working tranny which is hard to find since the T4wd is the one car with this setup, and it's also a big job to install.

So I'd say hold off and find a better car, unless they are hard to find in your area in which case see if you can get a lower price, as DLB said $500 max, and use your saved cash to buy a new tranny if need be.

There are a few mods that can be done to increase power on these guys, the most common being a weber carb. I'm working on doing it myself but there's tons of info on this site on how to set it up. While it won't give you tons of power, people say it makes the T4 more responsive and fun to drive.

Also, if you really need/ want more power you may consider a Corolla All-Trac-- Its a slightly bigger wagon with EFI. Not as good off road and a bit harder to work on/ source parts for but may be an option for you.

Welcome to the Fourms!

[dlb]

I just wish they had a little higher power output. Somewhere in the range of 100hp.

and the 4AGE engine swap talk begins!

it's a huge undertaking and a labour of love but not worth it to me--i'm happy driving like a senior. i think the easiest, cheapest mods that will get you some modest gains are swapping out the 1.5 L 3A and putting in the slightly larger displacement 1.6 L 4A (you just have to swap the oil pan and everything that hangs off the engine but it's a direct bolt in), the 32/36 weber carb as LR4WD mentioned, advancing the timing to 10* BTDC, and a performance cam regrind. there are a few companies that do the regrind. maybe a custom header but that would be fairly costly. i've looked for a header and haven't been able to find one.

if you're going to build up the engine that much or drive it hard, you might want to consider the brake upgrade as well. find it over in the repair guides section.

[Petros]

welcome to the list!

Unless you are willing to do a major engine swap (pretty involved), you will be limited to the low output of the 3ac. there are a few tweaks you can do that are not too much work, weber carb, performace regrind cam shaft, 2" exhaust pipe will make it a bit better. With a major overhaul you can get a few more horses out of it but the problem is the 8 valve head limits the power, and is not very good for tweaking more than about 80 hp out of it (stock it is only 62 hp). You can do an easy swap with a 4ac engine and get bit more power (larger displacement), or spend about $2000 and a lot of work to do a 4age swap (lots o special parts) because of its boxy shape and size it will only get about 32-34 hwy. With the 4age swap it might be a bit better (and about 120 hp as well.).

No way the car is worth that much with a bad trans, it is only a matter of time, it has already started coming apart. If every thing else is good at best is worth $500. keep looking and you will find one with a good trans, a blown engine for cheap, than you can rebuild a 4ac engine for it and have more power and better economy too.

[e.acartier]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Ive read and searched this website to death, it feels like I know some of you already.
I followed littleredtercels ice racing mods, I think it was The David Lucas Barnes 4age swap i perused (then deemed unfeasiable at least for my self). I really enjoyed the story you posted Petros of the cross country tercel rescue.
Ill bide my time and if the right Tercel shows its self my way I'll pick it up. I'll just have to be patient for now

[larry mcgrath]

On my way home i was thinking about the trany in this car (no 5th gear)this could be the nylon bushing that sets into the shift lever that goes into shift linkage this is a piece when worn out realy causes a lot of slack in the shifter. also there are 2 pins in the shift tower that wear out and cause exsevive slop in the linkage.Most of these cars have rust over the wheel wells,if the shifter has a lot of slop could be the problem NEGOSIATE the price? As for the power thing I'm in the process of swaping in a 20v Black/Top 4age 5 valves per cylinder 165 hp @7200 rpm its about 3 weeks from being done,a fair amount of work but interesting I plan on posting a ton of pix when its done Larry:

[tercel4wdrules]

I have test driven one and the only thing that makes me hesitate slightly is the gutless lack of power and the (relatively speaking) poor fuel economy. My MR2 with a couple small mods got me in the region of 34-35mgp winter and up to 37-39mpg summer (@65mph).

Unfortunately, it's an underpowered car and most of us have gotten used to that fact. This has probably kept me out of trouble too. The newer 85+ T4WD wagons have a lower final drive ratio that is more suited for the engine's power curve and feels more responsive overall. You can do some mods to the 3A-C/4A-C and make it more tolerable like the list of usual mods that were mentioned previously in this thread and just live with it that way. I have gotten over 34 MPG in all highway runs before in more than one of my T4WD wagons. Usually they were 100 mile trips on the highway at moderate speeds (55-65 mph constant cruising).

As for the missing 5th gear, there have been reports on here of 5th gear disintegrating or failing altogether. Not sure if this would be applicable to this case. I would assume this would happen if it was run low on gear oil, in which case you'd probably notice a bit of noise from the transmission if it had been run like that for some time.

If you keep searching you can eventually end up finding a nice one, but you have to be patient and willing to strike fast as the good ones are usually sold quickly.

[4wdchico]

The 5th gear is not within the trans on these cars, it sticks out into the front diff area FWIW.