front spring dilemma.

[Tercel__jon]

Alright. So I got my list today for EVERYTHING I Would need for the lift.

There isnt a single 83-86 camry and any of the yards around here. Thinking one might work off of a 81 nissan stanza I found. Also found a 82 corolla I messed with a bit but I think the springs were too wide.

Any other suggestions?

Is the best way to remove the strut and take it apart then measure the spring? If the main issue is the width, I know without a doubt the one from the nissan will fit.

Also looked for stuff to do the brake upgrades...NOPE! nothing at either yard. Oh well.

[dlb]

you can measure the spring rate of a spring without removing it. use the formula that petros posted here:

tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5210&p=41969

on my terc, i have the camry springs with stock tercel strut inserts up front and pathfinder springs with thunderbird shocks in the back. i like the rear lift but the camry springs don't work very well with the stock inserts. if i get any air (not by doing jumps over sand dunes in my case, just by hitting potholes at any speed faster than a crawl) the springs expand too far and i get a clunk. i believe this is caused by the mismatched dampening of the spring and insert. i also get what sounds exactly like a bad CV clunk when i accelerate while turning hard left and hit a hill--doesn't happen often but when it does, i hate it. checked to make sure all the new front end stuff is done up snug but the CV-ish clunk persisted until i started running lower profile tires (185/65R14), and now it's gone. i believe this clunk may also be caused by the current strut setup. i will probably swap back to a stock strut and just add a donut or two for a spacer at the top of the strut simply because i like the look of a slight lift.

long story short, i'm not a big fan of the camry spring front lift and don't recommend it. synth has tried a few other springs but i don't think he's found anything he loves yet.

[Tercel__jon]

Hmmmmm... yeah math's not my strong suit. But I think I get what was said. The more and thicker the coils the stiffer it is.

Any Idea on what the length of the camry spring is? Not bolted up in the strut, but loose? How many coils? and the thickness of said coils?

I can guarantee if I can get those measurements, I can find another substitute. There just arent any camrys older than 87 around here.

[dlb]

i think synth posted that info a while back. you'll have to do some digging to find which particular thread it was but it's in here somewhere.

[Tercel__jon]

Ok so as far as digging, Ive found several things, but also have a few more questions.

for an 83 camry (according to rock auto) the front coils wire diameter is .531" and the free height is 14.78 loaded height (in the strut) is 12"

87 and up are obviously different which sucks cause they are literally everywhere.

I cant find any information about the 88 alltrack springs. Like if they were the same as the regular corolla wagon springs or not. But synth had or still has these and loves them.

Upon my research further into this, I believe the sentra spring I mentioned earlier will not work either. The diameter just isnt big enough.

I guess my only solution at this point is to disassemble one of my extra struts and take the spring with me into the junkyard next time I go and just compare.

All Im trying to do is find something that FITS in there and will lift it like the camry springs are supposed to do.

[Petros]

I do not think camary springs are the way to go, they are softer rate, but longer so have the effect of lifting the car. But it puts the Tercel strut near the top of their travel and you end up damage the upper seal and losing the strut incert. I think swapping the whole strut assembly from either a n All-track or a Celica front strut works better, (they are the same assembly). They are stiffer springs and larger diameter, but same travel. I have a pair and going to try and make fit some day.

All you have do is match the is the spring diameter, thicker wire means more stiffness, but more coils means softer spring. Until you find something that will work I would stay with Tercel springs, a/c springs are stiffer, and raise the car by shimming the strut. Do not go too high, you will damage the CV axles unless you also lower the transaxle (and you loose your ground clearance). So no point in raising the front more than about an inch or so.

[Tercel__jon]

Well all I did today was browse google earth looking for salvage yards. Found a fairly larger amount than I thought there was. Ill start calling looking for the all track springs.

One question I still havent found the answer to it, are the springs on a 89 corolla any different than a 89 altrack corolla or the celica? I would think maybe just a little different.

I already have the A/C springs in the car from the factory. I also already have spacers lined up ready to go in as well.

I had completely forgotten about that one guy with the lund visor that I talked to. Said he used 91ish camry struts and re drilled the holes for the knuckle while using the tercels stock bearing plate. Ill give those a try if I cant find any of the altrak stuff.

[Petros]

The standard corolla springs are not the same as the All-trac, they All-Trac springs and struts are much heavier. The all-trac struts are larger dia (about 2 inch vs. normal Tercel and corolla strut of about 1.5" dia) with a heavier spring, these are the same as the celica GTS front struts (performance strut). IT will also have to have the Tercel steering knuckle holes drilled out the next size larger, but the center to center distance on the strut mount is the same. The other alternative is to use the smaller Tercel sized bolts and buy these hat shaped washers designed to be able to use the smaller bolts in the larger hole. The bolt shank is 1mm different dia, from I think 10mm to 11mm.

[LittleRed4wd]

This is good stuff! Jon, keep us posted on what you end up doing-- I as well can't find any 83-86 camrys around here for springs so I'll have to use something else. I like the idea of the All-Trac strut-- Petros, you're saying the All-Track strut will work with a hat washer without modding the Tercel knuckle?

[Petros]

Yes, I did a test fit and it looks like it just needs either the hat washer or the knuckle holes oversized. You would also have to swap out the top mount, but I do not think that will present a problem if you have a spring compressor.

[Tercel__jon]

So today I called about 10 yards and went and looked at one myself.

No altraks.
No 83-86 camrys.
No celica GTS's either.

Ive got about 20 more yards to call tomorrow and Ill report back with results. I know not all yards will know for a fact if the have them out in the yard...but Im not driving 160 miles one way to walk away empty handed... cause if I had that money Id just buy them new from toyota.

[Lil Beast]

When it comes to suspension set-up, it gets finicky! There is so many ways to set them up but you got to know your driving style, terrain you'll be driving in, etc... Some need more travel in the suspension, some stiffer, etc.... Then comes the strut too you can have more travel in your springs and have stiffer strut too compensate with the bouncing but most important is the weight rate don't go too high for a light vehicle, mine as well go to a rodeo! If you want lift, but are satisfied with the suspension you can make lifting spacers between the strut and the pillar! Should be easy! Maybe you'll need someone to weld pieces but should be cheap! Adjustable inserts sometimes for uneven driving situation, can be handy! Adapter plates can be made for any strut pretty much! For a good cheap all around replacement strut I like the KYB's a little stiffer it compensate for the tired spring!

[PrescottAZ]

Just chopped two coils off the bottom of a set of cherokee front springs and put them up front. Very stiff ride. Hits full extension on hard bumps so I may shape them a bit to soften them.

[Tercel__jon]

Well, what does a cherokee weigh? 4000lbs? and a tercel is like what? 3500 or less? It makes sense that it would be stiff. If you get it sorted out, please let me know. Im still keeping a look out for springs the right size. Very few 80s cars happen to be in the yard without being straight scrapped.

[ARCHINSTL]

SR5 T4WD = 2290 pounds, according to the '86 dealer brochure.
Cherokees weighed 3400 pounds plus, depending on spec.
I'd think the Cherokee springs would be a LOT stiffer!
Tom M.