a whole different wagon

[Shaggymoon]

After buying a nearly rust free wagon with a busted trans and worn out motor and having years of engine issues, I now have a proper engine in Scooby. I drive my wagon everyday in Atlanta, stop and go traffic and at minimum I drive 50 miles a day. The 4th or 5th time having a 3AC repaired (the last one was a whole different engine from a parts car i bought), I was fed up with the "no-go" and so many engine ills.

Then my clutch got sick. In looking at cost for replacing a clutch I did the only thing that made sense, and cost more money, I had an engine put in with the clutch. A guy in an 80's Honda Civic Wagon flagged me down to talk about my car, since he had never seen one in person. He said "you got to go to Garage Zero." That was the same thing this older man told me when i met him in a pull apart while he was taking a steering rack out of a Celica Sunchaser.

So i went to Garage Zero. The man behind it all, John Lewis, was super pumped to see one of these Tercel4wds in person. The first thing he said was "you need a 4age in that thing." I said, yes in fact that is what i want to do.

A few months later, I am driving my wagon with a 4agze (supercharger removed). John deals with these engines often, there are about 3 AE86 cars in his lot, so the difficulty was making it work in the tighter engine bay of the wagon. Not to mention that the flywheel of the 4age is too big for the trans yet the bolt patterns don't match up with the stock tercel one.

We are still working on an idle issue and we melted one clutch cable all the way through. But the engine is a whole world different from the 3AC and the trans seems to be holding up just fine. Torque Steer is a very real thing.

[dlb]

awesome! how much did the swap cost in parts and labour, if you don't mind me asking? how long did it take?

[Shaggymoon]

the engine swap was multiple times more problem filled than John Lewis expected. I knew it would be a problem just cause of how many issues i have had with my particular wagon. So what would have taken him a week or two ended up taking about 2 months. If he did the same swap in another wagon it would take him a week or two. He likes new challenges and that was part of his wanting to do the swap. He put a LS V8 in a Datsun Z. He puts just about whatever engine he wants in whatever car customers want to bring him. He is the guy people go to when other shops say "i can't do that".

Over the few years of owning this car i have sunk much monies into it to have little to none to show. The Barto lift, thank you Tercel4wd.com for that one, has been the greatest improvement to my car and it was dirt cheap. This swap cost around $4ooo including parts and labor and post swap TLC. I took him my car with the engine pulled and sitting in the back. I drove away with a fully functioning 4AGE swapped tercel4wd. All gauges work, shifts the same, drives like a racing engine in a wagon. If I would have done this when I bought the car originally, for $500, then I would not be upset at how much i have sunk into it. But all the learnings and lessonings along the way have been good.

The swap used much of the 3AC that was in the car. Same alternator, new 3AC water pump and same power steering pump. But he had to do some custom set up to get it all to fit in there since the engine mount is where one belt driven item normally goes on a 4AG. On paper it all looks stock just a piece from the 3AC on a piece of the 4AG, but getting it all just right was a bugger. And I had to do a custom bump on my hood to get it to clear the TVIS even with the 1 inch subframe drop. If only the lower control arms were mounted to the subframe instead of the unibody.

[Petros]

nice job! Snyth and I have been working on something similar. The 3ac engine head is a very poor design, even for an 8 valve engine.

Please post pictures of the engine bay exhaust, and how it is routed down between the starter and the steering. looks like he used the MR2 or transverse intake manifold, not the AE86 intake.

have you had a chance to check out the fuel economy? It should be better presuming you do not step on it too hard.

[Shaggymoon]

Still trying to get all the kinks worked out with the exhaust. MR2 was the source of the engine. The TVIS intake is a little different from year to year even in the AE86 so some may work better than others but we found the rear wheel drive style caused intake hose to occupy the same spot as the radiator hose. So we used a FWD TVIS, and it works great. With the 1 inch subframe drop the hood still hits it.

As for exhaust, it is stock toyota Turbo manifold adjusted a smidge to not hit the steering rack. From there back it is a custom 2.25 pipe. Does not follow any aspect of stock channel or location. It hangs about 1.5 inches from the car and exits in front of left rear tire. No muffler just one resonator. Excellent at idle, comfortable at 80. It must be understood that the 4AGE is a loud engine with multiple harmonics. Thus, under half or more throttle my car is very loud, as in louder than motorcycles. And I like it. I can nurse it around cops and cruise through neighborhoods. Then on the on ramp I am as loud as open headers on a big V8. There is also this lull before the storm at 4500 RPM where it is eerie quiet. Only complaint is the sound bouncing off the concrete median on the hwy due to side exhaust. BUT if you want it to be quiet you will need atleast one serious muffler. 4AGE is just loud. And the resonator is very important to cut out some of the weird harmonics.

the MPG is not great right now. I can't keep my foot out of it. As of a few hours ago John Lewis welded the exhaust O2 sensor on. So right now i am getting around 21 mpg. That is a ruff est. since my tank never fills to the same spot each time, my tires are over stock (using Miata wheels, another thank you to you wise men of Tercel4wd), and my trip meter is very sporadic so I just go from OD #'s. also my temp gauge and thermostat are not happy right now so i have sporadic idle which increases fuel consumption.

The GTS has much shorter gearing, nearly 1k RPM higher at 65 or 70. So in theory high 20's is easily achievable. I drive in Atlanta. If any of you come to Atlanta you can see what I mean by heavy traffic, stop and go and "gunning for a gap". So if you cruise around at 55 with little traffic then you should get super good economy. I managed to hit 30 mpg with the wounded 3AC's i had. But there is no way I can drive this car like soccer mom. This engine wants to rev and every time I see a Honda with a fart-can-exhaust I have the urge to drop down a gear and gun it. Eventually I may drive it calm and get an accurate mileage. Fuel Injection and self contained engine computer means less headaches but more wires.

With this engine the tercel is not just a very unique and very capable giant-killer of a 4wd with impressive cargo space. It puts smiles on your face to drive it just from how it runs. 1st gear runs up past 25, 2nd to almost 60 and 3rd winds out to nearly 100 mph. If I don't keep it in check this engine will sneak past 80 mph with very little throttle in 5th.

[takza]

Might want to put about 1/2 synth gear oil in the trans? That might be a weak spot....

[SynthDesign]

Well somebody beat me to a running 4A-GE in a US Tercel. Looks like we have a little different ideas about installation. Hopefully have mine done in the next month or so. Can we get some video of it running?
Hows the clutch holding up? what did you end up using for it?

21mpg for a fuel injected engine is horrible. Especially on a 4A-GE. Was the block serviced before installation? Are u using the stock 4A-GZE injectors and ECU?


Also noticed the fuel line is hose clamped together. I'd highly recommend going to a solid line or fitted hose. That's the most common way for the engines to catch fire besides a leaking oil cooler.

[tobiastercel]

yeah a video would be great.
as i mentioned to you synth... seeing these things in action helps the rest of us keep our spirits high.

how does that song go "dream, dream, dream...."

[Shaggymoon]

The engine is using all stock 4AG-ZE components including ecu and harness. Only had all the 02 sensors on the car a few days and still have the idle issue which we think is due to a bad thermostat. we put a new one in, but these things can be bad right out of the box. I will upload a few videos to my youtube account, once i take a decent one. It is great fun putting the tach needle down into the red all the way to 7, then shifting and doing it again. My gas mileage will improve once i stop enjoying that so much.

The clutch is store bought 4age. it seems to be holding up just fine.

[Shaggymoon]

here is a short clip from my phone of me pulling out of a gas station. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDAfOqU-nHE

[4doorVIP]

that's pretty funny seeing a tercel rev so high..... best part is the horn at the end something wasn't happy with your driving

[larry mcgrath]

I went to grage zeros web site to get a little more info about your car, but couldnt log on. I just finished building my 84 cr5 4x4, watched your video and I think Im hooked to do this mod. After reading through Synth post Im still a little confused about the clutch,pressure plate.flywheel set up. some pix and more info would be greatly appreciated. Winding to 7 grand is great, makes me wonder how the tranys going to hold up,I guess well find out,keep us posted.

[Petros]

The 4age uses a forged crank with 8 bolts at the flywheel end, vs. the 3ac which has a cast iron crank and six bolts on the flywheel. The 4age crank also has larger bearings. Since the flywheel has to be compatible with the trans and starter you have to take a 3a flywheel and have it modified to fit on to the 4age crank. Four of the six holes get welded closed and than it gets machined so there will be 8 bolt holes in the 3a flywheel so it will bolt on to the 4age crank.

It is one of the most troubling part of the conversion I think because it takes a machine shop knowledgeable in welding cast iron (requires special equipment and knowledge) and familiar with the tolerances required. I also had the flywheel lightened from a whopping 19 lbs down to a more reasonable 14 lbs. It has to be rebalanced after the work too.

[larry mcgrath]

Petros thanks for clearing this up for me. Larry:

[Shaggymoon]

sorry for the lack of updates, I am starting to understand how a person's project car can take years to finish. My family is helping a lady with a few month old baby, that is not a 10 min task. So, my car sat for a month or two after I had an overheating issue. Turns out the air flow sensor got unplugged, and there was a need for running a coolant hose from block to air flow and return.

Garage Zero is currently swamped with work, but if I remember right the machine shop actually cut the center out of the 2 flywheels and swapped them. So my car has the surface of a 4age flywheel but the bolt pattern for the tercel, not too mention being cut down to fit in the bell housing. I have not driven it far enough to know if the trans will explode or not, but i never slam the clutch in or try to smoke the tires. Also, the torque from the 4age is less than the 3ac. The 4age has way more power, but it has to wind up to it, so there is not a hard jarring force on the trans.

the coolant line issue and the loose plug were the cause for my idle issues, it was reving up and down constantly anytime i had the clutch in. My electric fan relay is toast so John is putting in a stand-alone one so I can have a properly working fan. I hope to put a few hundred miles on it soon and get a new reading on the mpg.