Timing belt

Logbear · Post by **Logbear** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:45 pm

I've had this happen on a previous Tercel of mine. This one is a 86 with the 3AC engine. It just quit suddenly. The first thing I checked was the rotor (I had one fall apart once before), but that was fine. I peaked under the plastic inspection cover and the belt is still there but I suspect that the inner part of the belt stripped (that's what happened before). In reading the book in mentions removing the radiator and removing the crankshaft pulley. I thought that I got away without removing those before to remove and replace the timing belt. It does look like the water pump is in the way but I think I can work around that. Can anyone give me a step by step procedure. I'm trying to fix this during coffee and lunch breaks today so I can drive home this afternoon.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:35 pm

Getting that plastic cover off is a ROYAL bugger!!!!! That tensioner bracket is strategically placed to thwart the home mechanic! GRR!
You'll have to relieve tension on the belt obviously, I dunno how hard that is.
3A-C's are non-interference I'm almost sure...

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:10 pm

On other cars, you can see if the belt is broken/whatever by looking through the oilcap and seeing if the cam goes around while cranking...can you see that on this engine?

I had that plastic cover off recently without removing anything else, basically I took the bolts out, and then pulled really hard and swore alot! It was catching in one place, like typrus said...so while it was off, I used a file to modify the plastic cover...it went back on no problem so now I can take it off whenever I want!

Logbear · Post by **Logbear** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:44 pm

I pried the plastic cover off enough to see the belt and marked it with a pencil. Then I cranked the engine for a second and sure enough the mark didn't move. I'm going to rent a car dolly and take the car home tonight so I can work under cover with good lights. I guess I do have to take the crank pulley and maybe the water pump pulley off. Radiator removal is probably helpful to get a socket on the crank pulley bolt. Once the car is home removing the radiator is no big deal. The book also mentions removing the cylinder head (valve cover) to do this job.

arbskynxnex · Post by **arbskynxnex** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:45 pm

The easy way to check the belt is to pull off the valve cover, you can see the belt with it off. The just turn the crankshaft pulley and check the belt as it goes around. I pulled the top timing cover off mine recently without removing the radiator and it was a huge cluster. Mine has A/C and power steering so getting to some of the bolts is almost impossible, without an offset wrench, and even then it's only 1/12th of a turn at a time. You don't need to remove the water pump, but you do need to remove the pulley for it, can't get to one of the timing cover bolts with it on. The belt tensioner isn't that bad to loosen up to get the belt off. Good luck getting the crankshaft pulley off, it was so tight, on mine, it busted the puller. If you get the pulley and the lower cover off, I would replace the crankshaft and camshaft seals while you are doing this, the ones on both my tercels had failed and leaked oil all over the belt.

Logbear · Post by **Logbear** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:38 pm

I'm having a hard time getting the center bolt off the crankshaft pulley. Does anybody have any hints? The bolt doesn't have reverse threads or anything like that does it? I put the car in gear to help keep the crankshaft from turning. Is there anything else I can do? It's a real bugger. I did take the radiator out to give me more room. Right now I'm taking a time out.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:03 am

No need to pull the radiator. The crank pulley bolt is right hand thread and comes off if you can hold the pulley from turning. If you have a FSM there is a picture of the special tool that bolts on to the pulley. You can probably fab something that will do the job or screw a couple of bolts into two of the four threaded holes and use a pry bar to hold the pulley. The water pump pulley needs to come off but loosen the bolts before you remove the drive belt. That will help the pump pulley from spinning as you remove the bolts. The cylinder head cover needs to come off also. Hope this helps.

takza · Post by **takza** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:54 am

The bolt on mine came out OK by putting the car in 4WD and 1st.

Other options are to remove the starter and use a c-clamp on the flywheel.

Also have heard of using a pipe on a breaker bar resting on the frame and with the coil wire off...hitting the starter just enough to break it loose...just make DARNED SURE things are going to turn in the right direction.

Use PBBlaster.

My belt stripped some teeth right at the crank gear.

If you are going to just put a belt on it to get it home...I'd later do both seals & with a new tensioner.

Might move that cam gear one tooth vs the belt while you are at it? :rolleyes:

Logbear · Post by **Logbear** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:39 am

Thanks for all the replies. I've got a list of things to try to get that crank pulley bolt off. It feels good to know I'm not the only one to have a rough time with this. I took the radiator out so I wouldn't bang it up.

So far the list of things to keep the engine from turning is:

1) Remove the starter and jam something against the ring gear or use a C-clamp on the ring gear.
2) Put bolts in two of the four holes in the pulley and use a bar on them.
3) Use an impact gun.
4) Socket with pipe on frame and hit the starter (scary but maybe I'll get that desperate)

I've already tried:

1) Having the car in 1st gear 4WD
2) Hitting the ratchet with a hammer

I think I'll try the 2 bolts in the pulley method first.

Would a torch heating up on the bolt help?

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:42 am

Am I the only one on here who has heard of this AWESOME way to lock up the engine to keep it from turning? Pull one of your spark plugs, and turn the engine till the piston is down at the bottom or something...I guess it doesn't have to be all the way. Then find some rope and feed it in there, feed alot in, but when I do it, I tie a huge knot in the end or something so you dont lose it down the hole

Then, start turning the pully bolt, and the piston will come up, and compress the rope, until it can't compress anymore, and lo-and-behold, the engine is totally locked up and you can crank on that bolt all you want without anything turning. Nice and safe and easy, no holding prybars with one hand and a breaker bar in the other while things slip and move and gouge your hand; no using the starter or huge pipes or special tools even...gotta love it

Also, if you ever have to remove a head on a vehicle where the head is quite stuck (as they can often be) this is a good way to do it...although it doesnt' work as well as putting a carjack and a 2x4 under the head and cranking the jack until the weight of the car pops the head off.

Of course an impact wrench is even easier to get that bolt out....but you will need some way to hold the engine while you torque that bolt back up

What is the torque on that bolt for this engine? I did a truck one time and I had to torque that bitch to 135 ft-lbs, it was about all I could do, but finally my wrench "clicked"

Logbear · Post by **Logbear** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:46 pm

Now I'm anxious to get home and feed the engine some rope! I like that idea! I forget what the manual listed for a torque spec. I have the manual at home with the car and I'm at work right now.

I'll let everyone know how it works.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:51 pm

How long is your torque wrench arm? :huh: My little 3.5 foot long one goes up to 210 with not too much effort, and we have had it tested for accuracy.

If you have to, I believe torch heating works alright. Someone told me to torch heat then rapidly cool, you break off any rust but my personal concern would be whether it would break the threads on a weak bolt or not. Just don't break the head of the bolt off!

If you feed it a clean white rope and it comes out not so white you may want to be doing some Sea-Foam.

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:07 pm

I was wondering if someone would say "boy yer a nancy-boy for having a hard time with your measly 135lbs"
well i was right!
I dunno typrus I guess the wrench is only somewhat over a foot long, and it was a strange angle, as they usually are

takza · Post by **takza** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:22 am

Logbear wrote: Now I'm anxious to get home and feed the engine some rope! I like that idea!

Make sure both valves are closed? Compression stroke?

I had a problem with the crank gear being rusted on the crank...use lots of PBBlaster...NOW.

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:11 am

hmm you know I never considered that the exhaust valve might be open...I have done the rope thing like four times at least, and never once thought of that....hm
well don't they open just a tiny little bit anyway? and rope is squishy heheheh so it should wrap around it and push on the head too....but you could bend the valve i suppose.
Well I still think it's one of the best ways to go....

What's a good way to make sure it's on compression stroke? oh I know I know! if you do it on cyl#1, its when the rotor on your distributor is pointing to #1 wire. yep see that college did pay off
heheh
B)