What do with badly overheated honda?

[Petros]

I have been on a couple of CRX forums with this question but they have not been helpful so I thought I would see if you guys (and girls) have any suggestions.

I flew to Austin a few weeks ago to visit my daughter, do some service on her '86 CRX, help her move out of the dorm at the end of the school year. And than I went to New Mexico to pick up an '84 Tercel4wd (in trade for doing some heavy maintance on the guys '88 toyota mini-van). The day after I left my daughter her radiator hose blew and she badly overheated the engine (I had consider replacing that hose, but it looked just fine).

I drove the newly acquired Tercel back to Texas when I was done in NM, and proceed to pull the head off the CRX in the motel parking lot where she was stuck in Fort Stockton TX. The number two combustion chamber looked like someone took a welding torch to it. there was vaporized aluminum deposited all of the exhaust valve and inside the chamber. The head was melted and badly warped. I sanded the head smooth by hand with a large tile and 200 grit wet and dry (but I did not have a strait edge long enough to measure overall warp). The cylinders and block looked okay, but again I did not have a straight edge to check it. I put a new head gasket in and put it all back together (in 92 deg heat!). It would not start, checked spark, fuel, etc. And found that there was no compression in the 2 and 3 cylinder, and I was getting antifreeze out of the number 2 spark plug hole. So there is no seal at the head gasket. Since the nearest machine shop was 100 miles away I choose to tow the CRX back to Austin with a home made tow bar, using the Tercel4wd as a tow vehicle. It was slow but uneventful.

We both flew back home to the Puget Sound area after we found a place to store both cars. I though I would leave her the Tercel for her to drive should I not be able to get back and fix the CRX before school starts. Seems there are no wrecking yards in Austin with cars that old (I can find them all day long in the Seattle area). I considered getting an imported engine, but also face the old model issue, and it would have to shipped from out of state. I have 2 spare engines at home in the garage (very used), that I could rebuild one and ship it to Austin, than fly out and do the swap. I would rather just swap the head and save the cost of shipping a short block.

So I am considered rebuilding a head and flying back out to Austin with it in my luggage, and installing it (the stripped head is light enough to pack as luggage). But I am wondering how much damage I may have done to the aluminum block.

I have talked to two machine shops and both have said they seldom see problems with Honda blocks when they over heat, it is almost always the head that warps and twists. I have also heard of the rings going soft after a bad overheat.

So I was wondering if you had any opinions about if I should go to the trouble of rebuilding a short block and ship it (very costly) and it is a hassle to pull the whole engine (transverse installation). I will be doing the work in a borrowed garage with minimal tools beside what I bring with me.

What I was thinking I could rebuild a new head here at home, fly out with my tools, and a set of rings. Pull the warped head, drop the pan and slip the piston out and replace the rings, and than assemble the engine using all of the old cam, rockers, etc.

If it turns out the block is badly warped I could pull that and have a machine shop resurface it if necessary, loosing at least a day before I can get home. But it would avoid having to ship a short block 1000 miles across the country.

So my question is, what is the risk doing damage to the block on a 1488 cc honda engine when badly overheated? Should I just swallow the cost of rebuilding a short block (along with the head), and shipping it to Austin? Or are the changes good the block and everything in it are still serviceable, and all I have to do is replace the head? Or do I need to replace the rings at least too? I know on our Tercel the low end is pretty robust, even when badly overheat it is perfectly usable.

FYI, I had rebuilt the CRX engine just three years ago, new rings, bearings and seals. It was running great and burned very little oil. Pulling and replacing just the head is a 5 hour job. Dropping the pan to replace the rings, and hone the cylinders, adds another 3-4 hours or so. Pulling the block and replacing it adds another 3 to 4 hours of work, plus the time it takes to haul it to the machine shop, have the deck milled, and than clean it up and haul it back. If I ship out a ready-to-install short block I will spend more money but only have to R and R the block, not mess with pistons and rings.

Thanks for any ideas or suggestion you might have.

[4wdchico]

If it were me, I would build a complete long block, including oil pan, valve cover & oil filter at home where tools, parts and other resources are well known & plentiful. All nice and clean internally. Pull the tape off the intake and exhaust ports and start hanging parts on it. At home you can do it right & cheaply, especially since you have two motors to source parts from. Then your potential variables are reduced to the absolute minimum down in TX.

Going the long block route could potentially be a money saver by getting you back at home and working much faster.

[hberdan]

Too bad about that CRX engine, and your roadtrip ending early.
4WDChico has the best solution I think, even with the shipping costs. Spend the time at home to get a replacement engine completely overhauled and ready to go, truck freight the thing, install it and you are good to go. (Assuming you have a place to work with a hoist down there.)
A second not so drastic solution is--executive action--terminate the CRX, with extreme prejudice. Throw the time and hassle and the cash into something else. Get a replacement vehicle. After all, it's what, 2000 miles away? There are plenty of cars between.

[dlb]

A second not so drastic solution is--executive action--terminate the CRX, with extreme prejudice. Throw the time and hassle and the cash into something else. Get a replacement vehicle. After all, it's what, 2000 miles away? There are plenty of cars between.

i second this motion.

[rer233]

i third this emotion-- get another t4wd and bury the crx.

[solarlord]

I totally agree -having made the mistake of replacing just the head in simalar situation to yours, 200 miles from home in the back of a motel -got 20miles down the road and the whole lot blew- rebuild the whole shabang just canabullize the usual bits/alternator manifold etc-DEC

[Petros]

Thanks all, we considered these options. I can replace the whole engine for about $400 of cost (including the airfare) and two days worth of effort, which is cheaper than replacing the car. Beside my daughter loves her CRX, and we could not replace it for one with new brakes and a rebuilt motor for anywhere near that much. I do not mind the effort and actually enjoy road trips.

Besides that I need to return to Austin to get the Tercel4wd and drive it home. I have to be in Los Angeles on July 25th so I thought I would combine the trip anyway (saves some costs for other family obligations).

So I think fixing the CRX and driving the Tercel home is the only practical option for now.

What I am trying to determine, along the lines of my original question, what is the least I need to do to the engine to get a reliable fix. If the best way is to replace both the head and short block, than I will have to pay for the full replacement. If there is any reasonable way I can just replace the head and save the cost of replacing the low end, than I would like to do that.

[solarlord]

PETROS- the crank maybe ok -but the pistons will be scored both the linners and the rings-without checking the shells on the crank you cant be sure, but if it has not done to many miles they could be ok .if not you must replace the full block saving the carb manifold and anything that bolts on- being an alli engine the lot gets affected by exesive heat-also reboring the cylinders causes the engine to run hot because you have reduced the thickness of the cylinder walls alowing the heat to travel more easily between the cylinder walls -if i bore a cylinder out and fit larger rings also i make more capacity to cool the block ie drill holes in the thermasat- hope this helps good luck -sorry there is no quick fix-del boy .. also check local wrecking yards for a full lump
WITH your know how this should be like falling off a log ,,,i think i am telling granny how to suck eggs!!!!

[dlb]

i think i am telling granny how to suck eggs!!!!

some british phrases are so gross.

[hberdan]

You think those British phrases are gross? You ever eat any of that British food?

[dlb]

HA! you must be referring to good ol' blood pudding. yum.

[ARCHINSTL]

You think those British phrases are gross? You ever eat any of that British food?

I've always wondered about spotted dick...
Tom M.

P.S. Not THAT much !

[Petros]

I just talked with a machine shop that has a lot of experience with honda engines and it does not sound good.

he said if it was badly overheated the block deck should be resurfaced, which means pulling the engine and taking it all the way apart. He also said the pistons can get distorted from the heat, and cause too much skirt clearance, as well as the rings getting heat damaged. He said he as also seen the cast iron sleeves get distorted out of round. He recommended just replacing the short block, it would cost less and be safer than risking all the damage that could have occurred to the block.

So it sounds like I will either have to ship a rebuilt short block, or find a replacement locally in Austin.

[solarlord]

Cast iron now there something you dont hear every day- must weigh a ton- sorry i thought it was an alli block- in that case get one in Austin-DEC- Did anybody mention black puddin! will send some over if you are short
PETROS- a local petrol head told me you can get a later 88 integra engine in a CRX with a bit of fannying about-apparently it then goes rather fast

[solarlord]

PETROS- sorry just sorting out other board members with there take away(fast food) orders

black pudding (boiled pigs blood and fat)
tripe(cows stomach boiled in vinegar)
jellied eels(speaks for itself, lovely grub)