IT DOESN'T WORK!!

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:34 pm

Okay well I'm sure you have seen my joyous "IT WORKS" post, but not so fast...not so fast. I was burning around town in it all day, quite happy with the way it was working...then I was goign to visit my friend 100 miles away....driving along merrily on the highway, then there is a stoplight about 50 miles up...come to the stop and the thing dies! I spent nearly 10 minutes having a heart attack while I pulled the air cleaner and tested stuff and tried to get it to start, finally got it to start...it didn't want to, as it would just BARELY catch, but I kept at it and finally it went, hesitantly, but a few revs and it was good, so I turned around and came back home.

I coudln't see any gas in the bowl, so I thought the fuel pump died, but I checked that and I shot gas all over the exhaust manifold so that was fine...hheheh

Ironically I dind't have any problems on the way home...and after it sat around for half an hour I took it to dinner across town, (more than it deserves! why should I have to buy it dinner when it dies on me?) and it worked perfectly....so I don't know what the deal is.

I will mention these other problems, just in case they are related:
1) it doesn't idle nicely, I have it at 1500 to help smooth it out, and it still coughs and shakes around
2) my gas mileage is not what I hoped, in fact, I think it is pretty sucky....I filled it up right before I left, and with only 100 miles of all highway, the gas is down almost 1/2 way! that's like.....assuming the gauge is (somewhat) linear, around 20mpg! bleah

So. What would cause my engine to die when I came to a stoplight, after cruising merrily at 3k for half an hour?

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:08 pm

Heh.. Sounds like a similar issue to mine, though I urge it to start a little better. I don't know what causes it, maybe the fact your carb was POS'd out for a while and it needs a good SeaFoam-erization, at least that helped mine a bit. Issue was that after a good happy while of 3-4k RPM, I'd shift into another gear and while the clutch was in it'd just sputter and croak. Run-starting it in 4th or 5th would get it going after a few seconds, but it was concerning nonetheless. At a stop sign or light it'd take upwards on 4 minutes of gentle cranking and the occasional pump to get it to wake back up.
Could this be caused by gucked up internals? If thats the case, you may just need a good spray of Deep-Creep and a tankfull of Sea-Foam. You may want to give that a shot anyway, as it isn't very expensive (maybe $15 for a can of Sea-Foam and a can of Deep-Creep <aerosol SeaFoam>?)
The stuff works quite nicely for de-gunk of valves, pistons... etc. Might even want to try that oil treatment suggested by takza. It couldn't hurt even if thats not the issue. Plus it would let you know if you were ready for a synthetic (by whether a leak develops, though I doubt it will)
It may have been running slightly lean and thus was hotter than it should've been, causing a discreet overheating stall?

takza · Post by **takza** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:27 pm

Adelard of Bath wrote: Ironically I dind't have any problems on the way home...and after it sat around for half an hour I took it to dinner across town, (more than it deserves! why should I have to buy it dinner when it dies on me?) and it worked perfectly....so I don't know what the deal is.

Now that's getting along with your car....I like like to see this sort of thing.... :rolleyes:

Next thing you know.....you'll be engaged....... :blink:

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:29 pm

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:56 am

yep, me and the Tercel, sittin in a tree...

Well it is definetely a love-hate relationship...and just like a real girl, we get along okay, then it screws me over! yay!

Well I suppose I can do the ol sea-foam, they sell it across the street, like 3.50 a can or something? I haven't done it for years, and never on a carbureted car....on my FI car I pulled a huge vacuum line, like the one to the brake booster, and put a funnel in there...somehow it kept running...then I would pour some seafoam in there, and it would bog, but I would get jsut the right speed of pouring so that it would keep running...then suddenly I would pour it in fast enough so it would die...then a few minutes later start the engine and wait for the neighbourhood-enclosing cloud to dissapate..then all was good....that was for cleaning the valves and combustion chamber, I suppose.

What is your recommendation for using seafoam on this car? just put it in the gas?
and what is this "deep creep" I have seen it there, next to the seafoam, but I thought it was for diesel engines.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:46 pm

Well Deep-Creep is Sea-Foam in an aerosol can basically. It is used mostly as a penetrating lubricant, but can also very effectively be used as a carb treatment. Its more handy than having to use the big ol can o' liquid, which I recommend putting in the gas. Full strength for a full tank is my recommendation. What I did with the Deep-Creep is I sprayed it on and off into the carb just barely enough to keep it alive just above idle (remember, my baby won't idle lol) and then released throttle and killed it with it. Let it sit for about 30 minutes, then repeated except with a 15 minute wait. Each time I started it it formed a smog so thick I couldn't see 2 feet and so acrid I couldn't feel anything but pain from my eyes and nose. I ran for clean air lol. I then did a quick spray in the carb with it running and then took it for a 5 miles drive. If I remember right I then SHUT OFF the engine, sprayed a bit in there, and let it sit overnight. I then put the Sea-Foam in the next day when I filled my tank.
It helped a lot.
You can also use Trans-Tune to clean out your Power Steering system. Usefull if you have minor grinding and squeal. I dunno how effective it is on Manual's as it was made for Auto's, but you might give it a shot.
The Sea Foam site has some write-ups.

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:08 pm

Okay I'm gonna go buy some....

I assume that anything I spray in the carb lke you did, or I have done in the past with FI cars, isn't going to clean any of the jets or anything in the carb...it is just going to do valves and cylinders?

I'll get some normal seafoam for my gas too, it could prolly use it i suppose

You mention deep creep is typically a pentrant...could it become the rusty-bolt spray I have been dreaming about?

I have tried lots of them, my favourite was this stuff I used to get at the tractor place that seemed to be marketed toward farmers, and it smelled like...coconut...strange but true, and it worked really well, but I can't find it anymore

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:21 pm

I think it works quite well on rust. We had a trailer hitch ball literaly rust-fused to the hitch... adapter......... thingy? and a few sprays about 5 min apart for 20 minutes made it give in to our uber-fury (and 5 foot breaker bar hehehehe)

Spraying into the carb mouth will help remove big nasty deposits inside the carb for the most part, with some help in the valves and cyls, and help on the ends of the jets. Any built up goo INSIDE jets or stubborn stuff in the engine will be deteriorated by the Sea-Foam impregnated gasoline.

If you think the inside of your engine is really bad you could try that first spraying down with putting it in the carb then removing the spark plugs and putting a few light mistings into the cylinder. Crank it once or twice with plugs in place but cables removed, or with plugs out, both should work equally, to smear it around then let it sit for a bit. It might be a royal bi#!h to get started after that, especially if you spray in too much, as it could cause a micro-flood. Don't give up on your baby.
If the Sea-Foam doesn't help, I dunno what else might.. Anyone else have input?

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:15 pm

Well I haven't done any spray stuff yet, but I think it is running fairly well....in fact, it might be running better than yours, typrus? you keep saying it won't idle? I think, if I was me a few weeks ago, I would go to the junkyard and get a carb just like mine, and then rebuild THAT or have a pro rebuild it, then just swap them...or actually if my tercel was in good shape, i wouldn't mind doing that weber swap or whatever that others have discussed.

but I did buy seafoam and stuff today, so probably tonight I will give that a go and find out what happens wee!

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:35 pm

I did the carb cleaner thing a couple of months ago. It was fun. I sprayed it into the carb throat while I had my friend rev it from the accelerator linkage. Vrroom... Vrrrrooooom... I almost choked it, but my friend did a good job of revving. Didn't need to go over 3.5k, unless your spraying the heck out of it like a mechanic did once. Revved it to 5k and did revving and squirt sprints on it. Then he did 6.5k on it. I think it was hard on the bearings, sounded real loud. Another time someone else was spraying and I was doing the revving from inside the car. I'm a lousy person at keeping the engine from stalling and I was keeping it at 3k. Didn't start, so I held the pedal a little over half-way in for 2-4 seconds and cranked and it started right up. That was after two unsuccessful starts. Then another time my dad was spraying and I was also revving (I was about 8-9 yrs old), keeping it at 2.5k and then as I stall it was going to stall I pumped the gas pedal quickly several times and shockingly it only sputtered and choked a little (like it was going to die, around 3-400 rpm) and then went back to life. That was weird. I think those are all of my carb adventures. Had a couple with the Nissan Sentra that may dad had when I was 6 years old and he got it started by spraying Gumout carb cleaner. I did the cranking once and failed to get it to start, I didn't know better to step on the gas while cranking. Was in really cold weather in Arkansas.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:10 am

Hehehehehe... Make sure it stays alive for a while while spraying.. Let it work into everything.
My carb responds pretty nicely beyond idle. It occasionally shudders or jerks after extended engine braking, but nothing too terrible.
The problem is that 75% of the time, it idles for 3 or 4 seconds then drops to 500 RPM or so, sputters for a sec or 2, then croaks. Other 25% it just flutters between 750 RPM and 1500 RPM.
I plan on Weber-izing her once the cash-flow starts up. Both for de-complica-zation and power/mileage boosts.

Gasoline Fumes · Post by **Gasoline Fumes** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:01 am

Adelard of Bath wrote: I have tried lots of them, my favourite was this stuff I used to get at the tractor place that seemed to be marketed toward farmers, and it smelled like...coconut...strange but true, and it worked really well, but I can't find it anymore

Fluid Film? I've used it, but I prefer Blaster PB.