Loss of Power at altitude

[Retroloc1]

Nobody knows the standart setting values ?

How much advance have you at max revs ?

[takza]

If you have the points-type distributor...they are more sensitive to having a loose dist shaft...can feel the looseness by moving the rotor side to side.

I'd just road time it by finding a flat road...put the car in 5th...warmed up...2/3s to full throttle...listen for pinging (sounds like ticking)...will have some until around 1200-1400 RPM? Probably don't want it at any higher RPM. Adjust the dist by loosening the bolt at the base.

Use NGK plugs...not Bosch.

If you run the car real hard...you need to be careful when advancing the timing though. Pay attention to pinging.....

[Retroloc1]

Last week I added 7° of advance and got a noticeable mileage improvement.

Yesterday I tried more...
I tried to get knock, turn the distributor as much I could: -25° at 1000rpm without knocking. Driving I heard knock tring to climb a hill at WOT, under 1500 on 6th, what I never usally do.

I finally reduced it to -20° at 900rpm and it looks fine, pulls better, run higher in the revs etc...

No pings but my engine is a bit worn in compression. I have naphtalene for sublimation at intake, and I added a few acetone to normal gas as I read it on this site (so I don't know my true octane)

Naphta + acetone + -10°/-12° advance already gave me VERY interresting gas mileage. I'll now test with -20° advance and tell you my results.

[takza]

The most advance I ever had was 15 BTDC....but you have a different carb & emissions setup. The pinging (or lack of pinging) is what is important.

Here is some info:

"Detonation

The spark plug's worst enemy! (Besides fouling)

Can break insulators or break off ground electrodes

Pre-ignition most often leads to detonation

Plug tip temperatures can spike to over 3000°F during the combustion process (in a racing engine)

Most frequently caused by hot spots in the combustion chamber.

Hot spots will allow the air/fuel mixture to pre-ignite. As the piston is being forced upward by mechanical action of the connecting rod, the pre-ignited explosion will try to force the piston downward. If the piston can't go up (because of the force of the premature explosion) and it can't go down (because of the upward mo-tion of the connecting rod), the piston will rattle from side to side. The resulting shock wave causes an audible PINGING sound. This is detonation.

Most of the damage that an engine sustains when "detonating" is from excessive heat

The spark plug is damaged by both the elevated temperatures and the accompanying shock wave, or concussion"


I usually shift above 2K...where I didn't have pinging even at 15 BTDC & using Bosch plugs.

Very interested in what kind of MPG changes you see...I never really tested OEM timing vs advanced timing as far as MPG.

You might try some 15W40 diesel oil? Good for an engine that burns some....helps compression.

[Retroloc1]

I have bad compressions but the engine has never been opened, the valves have never been grinded (right term ? in french we say the same as "run-in")
The head gasket might be rusty and the rings have already worked 21 years long... but I don't burn that much oil.
I usually use 10W40 semisynthetic and have to add (burn + leak) 0.35 liter per 1000Km... translate as you can.

To get a ping I'd have to change one tooth to the distributor's gear as -25° at idle is the max I can set with the actual position.

I investigate to add a knock sensor and a red light on the dash to ensure to be aware of it if it comes.

The official mileage (1983-85) was 5.1Liters per 100Km and 7.1L/100Km at 90Kph and 120Kph constant speed.

I'm not sure of the formula to convert but that might mean 53.5MPG and 38.5MPG.

We spoke about MPG on french forum at
<a href='http://www.forum-auto.com/sqlforum/sect ... 69-630.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.forum-auto.com/sqlforum/sect ... 630.htm</a>

I have good hopes to get under 5L/100Km (54.6mpg ??), especially if the wether warms.

[takza]

As far as I can calculate...which might not be too far.....

oil use...

0.35 liter per 1000Km = .36 quarts per 621 miles = 1 quart per 1725 miles


mileage...

5.1Liters per 100Km = 1.35 G per 62.1 miles = 46 MPG at 56 MPH


If you manage that kind of mileage....you are doing very well by US standards....

As far as the pinging....I beleive that you get the worst pinging at low RPMs and under full throttle...so if the pinging goes away above a certain RPM when you test for it...you should not have pinging at higher RPMS and at full throttle. This is with a naturally aspirated engine....not a turbo.

[Retroloc1]

My consumptions are biased because the engine is worn in compression.
10.000miles ago I measured 7.5/3/6.5/7 bars (109/43/94/101 psi) on a cold dry block and 7.5/4.5/7.5/7.5 bars (109/65/109/109 psi) after oiling the cylinders. The engine-brake is soft and the starter fast...

All in all, winter/summer city/road/offroad solo/trailering fresh /old tuning etc I have :
31.3MPG for 17 monthes. This doesn’t take in account the error of the odometer (shows about +3.5%)
In this big average I have for example 175mi at 46mph average with a 3700Lbs trailer for 22.8 MPG
280mi alone in the car but at 65mph average in half-mountain roads (mostlly 75-100mph to reach 65 average) for 23.7MPG
Cool (55-60mph) and alone I plan about 37MPG.
When I say « city » I mean « less than 2mi long trips » where choke may not disengage in winter.

LAST TEST :
Conditions :
Worn cylinders
4 M+S tires, pressure un-checked about 29psi
With big additional spot lights that loose at least 1 or 2 Cx points
With an « empty » weight around 2650Lbs (trail kit, tool boxes, armoured shield...)
With an odd thermostat that doesn’t let the engine warm enought.
With 6 persons inside
On an other hand,
With some naphtalene for sublimation at intake, with 9ci of acetone in a full tank of unleaded 85-95octane from Exxon
With -10° advance at idle instead of -7° as sticked underhood

Driving cool (no more than 55-60mph, few trafic)
About 46°F exterior, shiny wether
Sunday family trip : to reach a summit 2800ft higher than the start (snow) and back.
Total 165mi within 20-25mi of path finishing with rought steps and excursion on former ski-pathes.

Back at home I immediatly re-fulled in the same station : 36.7MPG

With more advance (at present I’m testing -20°), with low drag summer tires, with a really emptied car, for a valley trip and, above all, an engine compressing properly, I’m sure I could go under 5L/100Km or 47MPG.
Because, with the car as it is, I can drive 55-60 in 6th on flat roads with the gas pedal just 1/10 or 2/10in deep and the orange « economy » light only comes above 80-87mph.

I’m working to adapt an endothermic reactor similar to Paul Pantone’s GEET. I hope to finish before spring. If I succeed, I’m certain to break ALL records. I’ll tell you...

[takza]

The best I've done on open roads (mostly highway) was around 35 MPG...with a 600 lb load including myself. This was mostly flat terrain and in summer. Also using a heated fuel setup. With my previous 175/80/13 tires at 32 PSI...I might have made 38-39 MPG or so.

You might try to find some method to clean the rings in your engine...good chance that the low compression is due to sticking rings as much as wear. On the other hand...if the pressure didn't rise much when oil was added...that would indicate leaking valves?

Also with your car, a PCV jar might help some....I used a glass pickle jar set on the frame rail...pass side) right behind the radiator.

I am going to start using a pint of kerosene added to the oil right before a change with the engine run at a FAST IDLE for 15 minutes as an engine flush before EACH oil change. First time I did this on another car...the oil came out very black...only a slight loss of oil pressure while running.

I have a vaporizer with air bleed set up in the Tercel right now and will test it this summer. Also will test various oil additives over time. Will get my EVAP system (charcoal canister, gas cap, and VSV) setup right this summer also...might make a difference in MPG.

[takza]

With some naphtalene for sublimation at intake, with 9ci of acetone in a full tank of unleaded 85-95octane from Exxon
With -10° advance at idle instead of -7° as sticked underhood

I have a question about the napthalene...

In the US napthalene is usually the same thing as "mothballs"...used to preserve wool fabrics....it's a white solid.

While naptha is called Solvent naptha (petroleum) or Stoddard solvent and is a liquid solvent. Same as Coleman fuel in the US.

Wondering if you use liquid naptha and how much you are using per tankful?

And what are the MPG results when not used with acetone? Thanks.

[Retroloc1]

<<for example 175mi at 46mph average with a 3700Lbs trailer for 22.8 MPG
>>
another conversion mistake...
this travel I got 25.3MPG instead of 22.8

Rings...valves... anyway I plan to "open" the engine when I have some time.
I have another worn engine with good head. I began to prepare it:
ported and polished (right term ?) at intake and exhaust, and decked (right term ?) to get a 10:1 or 10.5:1 CR. I can re-surface or re-mill the cylinders at work so I'll do that if necessary.
I'd like to find a 1.6L 4A block to match with my 3A head but they are VERY difficult to find here.
Off-roading I broke a threaded-hole on my gearbox case, the one where fits the left stiffener plate. I'd have to find a way to remedy before putting more torque in it...

What's the matter with PCV? It only feeds oil vapour when slowing down, right ? No power losses with it.

In hot summer you can add some few water or humid air. The engine will pull at midday in the desert as well as in the fresh early mornings. Several years ago, with my old Ford Sierra, I got this way 30.5MPG at 106mph constant (100%) !

I have no canister system nor any emission stuff. Every thing goes out freely, it was the norm in that time. Anyway the tanks gases line may be clogged as it ever Pshits when I open the cap.

You purchase white solid mothballs. Be careful, here it difficult to find real Naphtaline. Supermarkets sell Paradichlorobenzene to repell insects and that's not good for engines. You place several balls in the air box, before or after the filter as you can and let them sublimate. They will change directly from solid to gaseous releasing very small amount of naphtalene gas (what you can smell).
This gas acts as a catalysator, I mean that the reaction between gasoline and oxygen is better and more complete when this third gas is present.
You immediately can measure and neat decrease on CO, HC and NOx and a better CO² showing a better reaction.
You also can feel better torque/power and in several cases will note a better mileage by 15%. (Fifteen !)
This is also convenient for diesel engines. They also emit far less black smoke.
During WW2 we had to drive with pure naphtaline but at present it's not economically realist.

I never heard about acetone before reading that in this site. I'm tring at present but as I change several things or settings the same day I can't say certainely witch benefit comes from witch change. It seems to be at least "not-worse".
My 1956 Traction 11B has a bad idle screw that gives poor vapourisation (emulsion ??). With acetone it seems to drive much smoother that would match to the promised "better mixing, small gas drops instead of big packs".

If you 're interrested in High mileagePG, you'll certainly be interrested by the PMC-GEET from Paul Pantone. It'll be easy for you to inform as many sites on the subjet are americans.
20-25% of HC and 75-80%of ...water: I got incredible resuslts with fixed engines and I'm now working to adapt one to one of my cars. My Tercel will be the first. With the gas between $5 and $6 per gallon, every body is concerned, except the big oil trusts and the governement...
It would be nice if you would do the same on the other side of the Atlantic, and share our experiences.

[Retroloc1]

I forgot...
To get good mileage at low speed, you should first fit low-drag tires.
Here Michelin warranties +5% with their X-green or "energy" regarding to their normal range that's already good on this data.
Mainly they have the same grip as "normal" tires wheras that's NOT true with other brands.

As low speed worry me I planned to work as possible on aerodynamics.
I built a luggage rack fixed to the trail tong (without trailer), formed a steel sheet for the bottom and sealed it to the rear bumper. It's about 1ft2" long and acts as a rear spoiler that enables the air from under the car lo lift and rotate behind the rear door. The air still vortexes but far behind the body. By the way, the window stays clean.
I might also make flat wheel covers: many air drag comes from rims and brake ventilation...
A (big) upper rear spoiler would also be efficient but I don't like that much the style it would give...

[Retroloc1]

also forgot...

If you have the 4.10:1 final ratio it's normal to need more gas than me with the 3.73:1
Here it depends on the date, before or after august 1984.

[takza]

Thanks for the info on the napthalene...same in the US with the different type of mothballs...guess they are going back to napthalene due to toxicity problems.

First I've heard of mothballs in the air cleaner. Other methods of use are to suspend 2 mothballs in a nylon stocking down the gas tank filler tube and to crush up 1 mothball per 3 gallons of gas (dissolved in gasoline first).

The PCV jar idea is that when using a jar, the heavier vapors are trapped in the jar and are disposed of...supposedly they interfere with combustion. These are also used with an air bleed right before the jar to help condense the vapors. Didn't do much on my Tercel...though an air bleed helped some. Probably works best with engines that use some oil. Would want to place the jar in a cool place...not behind the radiator as I did. Pint jar is fine.

I lost around 5 MPG going from oversized 175/80/13 tires to sticky 195/60/14 tires.

[Retroloc1]

Many air drag comes from tires.
195 is 2cm larger than 175, it's important and doesn't give advantages.
They'll just last longer as there is more rubber to wear.
175 is well enought for a 1ton car.

If you want low profiles, prefer some 175/65-14 or 175/60-15 (Nissan Micra, Audi A2 or New Mini by BMW ie).
If you look for better aerodynamics, choose 155-13, 165/70-14 or 145-14.
Ther are many Cx points hidden in the tires.

All these sizes have equal rolling-circumference. Here it's forbidden to change it. If you may in your country, you might make your transmission taller (as your former 175-13) but don't forget to take in count the new error ratio of your odometer. The real mileage, from place to place, is more important than the false mileage read in your dash.

PS: a 185/60-14 or a 195/50-15 need more gasoline but cost FAR cheaper to replace... I finally pay gas and tires from the same pocket...

[3A-C Power]

Though they are not perfectly equal in the rolling radius, many different size tires came with the Tercel in different places. In particular 13" came in 145, 155, 165 and 175, and 14" in 175 and 185 width. For the cheapest combination, 155/80R13 is the best considering you can get new tires for $20 here. They do give you more road noise.